Summer 2021 transfer window

prawnking said:

You may have a short memory, but anyone trying to do that on here last season got short shrift, not to mention anyone criticising the past four or five transfer windows

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If you mean you got short shrift, why not just say it?

AndyWolves said:

If you mean you got short shrift, why not just say it?

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It's not about me, I can handle all lengths of shrift, or even an absence of shrift.

I'm just interested in the shifting dynamics of the forum post-Nuno

Kenny said:

Before the final few games of last season, Martinez wasn't really seen as anything special. Loaned out all over the place then sat on the bench. He then put in some great performances after lockdown and was 2nd choice on the list for Villa (they went in for Ramsdale).

If we sold Rui and then signed a keeper that had played 15 league games for his main club and over a 6 or 7 year period of loan deals, the most he had played in 1 season was 18 games we would be hugely underwhelmed by it.
Obviously he has had a superb season for Villa so its easy to look back and say they nailed that one but his appearance record before hand is nothing to shout about (The Bruno Lage of goalkeepers if you will - not a lot of games but a couple of pieces of silverware won).

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Worth remembering that they only got Martinez as their second choice. They tried to hijack Sheff U signing Ramsdale first and failed.

prawnking said:

It's not about me, I can handle all lengths of shrift, or even an absence of shrift.

I'm just interested in the shifting dynamics of the forum post-Nuno

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I was fervently pro-Nuno throughout and remain so, I didn't want to make excuses for him other than us continually being without key players through the whole season (I don't think we ever sent out what anyone would consider to be our best XI in an entire campaign, which is never going to be great).

This whole summer seems very odd to me. If someone can give me an example of a club finishing comfortably mid-table, then sacking the manager, appointing someone totally unproven, then selling nearly all their good players and somehow improving immediately, I'd be interested. I can't remember one.

I remember United selling Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in 1995. But 1) they had Fergie, we do not and 2) Fergie knew what he had in his youth team that was there and ready to go. I can tell you right now we do not have a Class of 92 sitting there at Compton/Aldersley.

Deutsch Wolf said:

This whole summer seems very odd to me. If someone can give me an example of a club finishing comfortably mid-table, then sacking the manager, appointing someone totally unproven, then selling nearly all their good players and somehow improving immediately, I'd be interested. I can't remember one.

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I know what you mean, I'm just holding fire a little as nothing concrete has actually happened aside from Nuno going, could be some twists and turns yet

Deutsch Wolf said:

I was fervently pro-Nuno throughout and remain so, I didn't want to make excuses for him other than us continually being without key players through the whole season (I don't think we ever sent out what anyone would consider to be our best XI in an entire campaign, which is never going to be great).

This whole summer seems very odd to me. If someone can give me an example of a club finishing comfortably mid-table, then sacking the manager, appointing someone totally unproven, then selling nearly all their good players and somehow improving immediately, I'd be interested. I can't remember one.

I remember United selling Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in 1995. But 1) they had Fergie, we do not and 2) Fergie knew what he had in his youth team that was there and ready to go. I can tell you right now we do not have a Class of 92 sitting there at Compton/Aldersley.

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I suppose you can say Utd giving Ole the job after his failed time at Cardiff was an odd one. Only got the role due to his history and then pulled off 1 victory and got the gig full time.

prawnking said:

I know what you mean, I'm just holding fire a little as nothing concrete has actually happened aside from Nuno going, could be some twists and turns yet

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Well we know the next twist unless Lage does a Curbishley

Kenny said:

I suppose you can say Utd giving Ole the job after his failed time at Cardiff was an odd one. Only got the role due to his history and then pulled off 1 victory and got the gig full time.

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Yeah, but they didn't sell all the good players, plus they haven't improved from Mourinho's best results (he won trophies, they haven't won any under Ole, and they haven't finished any higher than his 2nd place in his final full season).

As a "who you know" rather than "what you've done" appointment he qualifies. So does Steve Kean. So does Aidy Boothroyd. So does Walter Zenga. So does Dean Saunders.

These don't tend to go very well.

Deutsch Wolf said:

Yeah, but they didn't sell all the good players, plus they haven't improved from Mourinho's best results (he won trophies, they haven't won any under Ole, and they haven't finished any higher than his 2nd place in his final full season).

As a "who you know" rather than "what you've done" appointment he qualifies. So does Steve Kean. So does Aidy Boothroyd. So does Dean Saunders.

These don't tend to go very well.

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Well Nuno was a who you know appointment in reality wasn't he.

To a point. But any Championship club would have appointed the ex-Valencia and Porto boss, let alone one who had just finished 15th. A few Premier League clubs would have had a look if he'd ever been on the open market.

No Premier League clubs other than Wolves would appoint Bruno Lage.

Deutsch Wolf said:

No Premier League clubs other than Wolves would appoint Bruno Lage.

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A situation the club have created themselves isn't it. Sold part of our identity to get the success and now, seemingly, repaying a debt from that success.

Its a big moment for Fosun and Jeff Shi. They have taken this route and it has to work.

They don't have to go down this road.

They don't have to outright lie about FFP.

They don't have to employ rank amateurs at executive level, who have the PR skillz of Gerald Ratner.

They don't have to sell anyone who's worth more than a brass farthing.

They don't have to foreshadow massive ticket price rises which are wholly unjustified on any number of levels.

They're choosing to, and they're all at best unwise or seriously risky moves.

I think the problem is at the moment Fosun are walking a very fine line.

So far they have owned the club for 5(?) years and the clubs trajectory has pretty much been upwards for all of that time so they have always seen the fans in a light where they have been grateful and I can't remember the team being boo'd or having any real negativity against them in all that time. Which is obviously a good thing.

The issue is now ;

- Sacking the most successful manager in most of our fans life times, who also had a great rapport with the fans.
- Reports of Patricio and Moutinho leaving
- Possibility of selling Neves/Traore
- Ticket prices increasing
- Appointing a relatively unknown quantity as manager

(I get that a couple of points there haven't come to pass yet but I was told by someone I trust a couple of months back about Moutinho, the Patricio stuff has too much legs in it to be bollocks now and we will definitely sell one of out saleable assets this Summer - I think you can come to that conclusion reading between the lines from the videos the club have put out.)

I keep seeing posts on here and on twitter that are along the lines of - " Some of us were Nuno in, Some of us were Nuno out but it's done now and we all need to get behind the new manager" - which in theory is nice. I am very skeptical about Lage but of course he gets my full backing at games. The real issue is that if the fan base is already split on the Nuno/Lage stuff it wont take many bad results for it all to rear its head again.

Once the above happens you will get fans turning on Shi/Fosun - it's inevitable and once the fans turn on them they wont get them back - I cant remember the fans turning on someone then changing their mind and getting back behind them fully again - once the relationship and rapport is gone, it's gone.

Finally I have massive reservations about Fosun's long term strategy, they have done a great job with Wolves so far and everything they have done to this point does earn them some trust. However their recent comments about the overseas fans seem misguided at best. Shi seems to think that we can grow the club organically and I get the premise - add things like eSports, fashion range in China etc and it's all extra revenue streams for the club and in the long term more revenue = more money we are able to spend on players. The issue I see with it though is where you have teams such as Manchester United/ Real Madrid etc have other parts to the business (basketball teams etc) it's all been achieved as a byproduct to the clubs success and the teams success on the pitch has meant these things have happened along the way - I don't think its something you can artificially manufacture - and you certainly can't get by on minimal net spends if you want to compete in the top half of the Premier League.

Apologies for the rant, but I am a bit disillusioned with the noises coming from the club and around the direction they are going in at the moment.

Deutsch Wolf said:

They don't have to go down this road.

They don't have to outright lie about FFP.

They don't have to employ rank amateurs at executive level, who have the PR skillz of Gerald Ratner.

They don't have to sell anyone who's worth more than a brass farthing.

They don't have to foreshadow massive ticket price rises which are wholly unjustified on any number of levels.

They're choosing to, and they're all at best unwise or seriously risky moves.

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On the FFP stuff. I know its UEFA led and we currently don't participate in their comps but is there something here that because we were punished and then had to agree to certain things over a couple of years to get the lowest end of the punishment mean that we still have to do what was agreed and if we don't, the moment we reappear in Europe they can tell us to piss off as we ignored an agreement?

Let's say we qualify for Europe this season (lolz).

We'd have to hand our 2019, 2020 and 2021 accounts to UEFA at the end of the following season. Once they take Covid into account (as they will) and we get our double prize money in 2021...there won't be an issue.

It was 2017 and 2018 that were killing us. They're off the radar.

As Jimmy Nail said, Shi's lying.

Kenny said:

On the FFP stuff. I know its UEFA led and we currently don't participate in their comps but is there something here that because we were punished and then had to agree to certain things over a couple of years to get the lowest end of the punishment mean that we still have to do what was agreed and if we don't, the moment we reappear in Europe they can tell us to piss off as we ignored an agreement?

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I expect that's exactly it. Why Spiers or Edwards (ok,ok) haven't looked to explore this and provide some clarity on the position is bewildering.

It is rare that something like this has created such polarised opinions. Whatever the end result I hope that we end up with a positive season. It certainly should not be dull!

Nando said:

I expect that's exactly it. Why Spiers or Edwards (ok,ok) haven't looked to explore this and provide some clarity on the position is bewildering.

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More clicks/sales in winding up the "wheres the money gun, no ambishun!1" lot.

Deutsch Wolf said:

As Jimmy Nail said, Shi's lying.

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That's a beauty.

This is what I'm talking about

"In the settlement, however, Wolves have agreed to limit their losses to €30 million in the financial year ending 2020. By the end of the 2021-22 season, the club will also be expected to have reached an “aggregate break-even” result for the years 2019, 2020 and 2021. Uefa rules allow for a buffer of a €30 million aggregate loss over three years within this definition.
A final condition will see Wolves submit regular updates to Uefa on their progress in meeting the FFP targets."

So we agreed to do things, that if we failed we would probably be removed from their Comps if we qualified. Obviously we are not in them now BUT if we fail to hit those agreed targets and supply updates to show we are doing these things we could be hit with a Euro ban. So I don't think Jeff is telling porkies here, maybe being optimistic on qualifying for Europe in the next 12 months.
Presume at the end of the agreement period if we fail and don't qualify for Europe we will either get a whopping fine or told next time you qualify, stay at home chaps.