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Wolves 2-2 Spurs: EFL Cup 3rd Rd - Bah Lost on Penalties Verdict Thread

YoungWolf said:
Changes created just means how many of their passes have led to shots basically. So Raul has set up 15 shots. They could be 15 Neves shots from distance. Hence why xA is more useful
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Raul’s is .9, Adama is at 1.

both should essentially have a goal and assist each from the first five games.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
Yes, yes he has.

This is how people who believed in Brexit argued.
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It's like all these mythical games over the past couple of seasons where we've not played Adama and been brilliant.

Paraded as self-evident fact, and an obvious step to improve us, when it's actually just guesswork by people who are 'over' Adama
 
What percentage of the 1 would 2 1 on 1's with the keeper account for?
 
prawnking said:
It's like all these mythical games over the past couple of seasons where we've not played Adama and been brilliant.

Paraded as self-evident fact, and an obvious step to improve us, when it's actually just guesswork by people who are 'over' Adama
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It's not guesswork though is it.

It's patent nonsense to suggest that Adama has put a load of great chances on a plate for other players and we've missed them. He just hasn't. That is not to say that he didn't play well in the first four games because he did, other than his finishing.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
It's not guesswork though is it.

It's patent nonsense to suggest that Adama has put a load of great chances on a plate for other players and we've missed them. He just hasn't. That is not to say that he didn't play well in the first four games because he did, other than his finishing.
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Going back to my earlier question, who else is making a convincing case for taking his spot then?

Because I've seen nothing to suggest Trincao or Hwang are definitively better wide options based on the games so far.

Adama dropping from first wide choice to third or even fourth is not justified
 
I personally would prefer Podence on the left and Trincao on the right (as you point out, neither he nor Adama have any goals or assists, so what's the difference) but I'm not going to be upset if Adama plays on Sunday.

I'm just railing against crappy stats to be honest.
 
I worry Trincao will be one of those that disappears from some games, but I think we have some pretty varied wide options tbh, and I hope Bruno finds the most effective mix.
 
sycophantia said:
Your comment was ott imo, there are maybe 2 or 3 people on here who would 'jettison' Traore, the rest of us accept his drawbacks and enjoy his good bits while being exasperated by him at times. We've scored 2 goals in 450 minutes football, while at the same time playing some of the most expansive football in years.. something isn't quite jelling yet, so not starting Traore in one game would not be dumping him. I'm not saying it would make a difference but you have to start somewhere. For me, I would bring Podence in for him. You can still bring Adama on if its not working.
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Looking at the stats since Podence arrived he has 36 games 4 goals and two assist and Adama has 42 games 2 goals 2 assists. Adama had his one year of creating 9 but its dropped off since. Podence is a decent finisher as well. His goals require some subtlety and good positioning . Traore is a beast who scares teams. There is a place in the squad for both. I think Podence may give the system under Lage something a little more than Traore. But that does not mean we should bin him off.
 
WsWolf said:
It's a shit argument.

Give me a decent sample of games we were good without Coady?
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Talking of shit arguments, did you enjoy the 'fluidity' of our Adama-less first half on Wednesday mate? 😉

I'll have a look for you regarding Coady, although tbh I think just about all of us appreciate his time has passed!

Also, you specifically said, 'we play better and are more fluid when Adama doesn't start', I was just keen to know if that ever actually happened other than in your imagination?
 
prawnking said:
Talking of shit arguments, did you enjoy the 'fluidity' of our Adama-less first half on Wednesday mate? 😉

I'll have a look for you regarding Coady, although tbh I think just about all of us appreciate his time is past
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Yeah we looked shit tbh, absolutely nothing to do with Neves forgetting how to do the basics or having absolutely no focal point to play off. It was solely because Adama wasn't on the pitch.

When he's dropped for Podence in a proper 11 we will see if I'm correct won't we.

You seem to think people just hate him or have some mad agenda for no reason. He has his strengths but he's not suited to play as an inside forward so he doesn't fit the formation, he rarely passes the ball in an incisive manner he just runs with the ball, great from deep but not so effective when you are receiving the ball the width of the box inside 25 yards. Both Trincao and Podence are better in that situation imo.
 
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Deutsch Wolf said:
It's not guesswork though is it.

It's patent nonsense to suggest that Adama has put a load of great chances on a plate for other players and we've missed them. He just hasn't. That is not to say that he didn't play well in the first four games because he did, other than his finishing.
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Well it is guesswork isn't it, as we have metric that measures how many chances, big chances etc that players create, and Adama is our 2nd highest, and one of the highest in the league. You for no ogical reason whatsoever are just dismissing that because "i know better" despite the fact that off the top of my head i can think of several chances that Adama has created.

Both Raul and Adama are listed as having created 2 big chances each.

For Raul i'd imagine that was his chest down against Brentford for Hwang, and his flick for Semedo at Watford.

For Adama off the top of my head, i'd imagine that was the cross at Brentford he put on a plate for Raul, and the chance he laid on at Leicester.

As for other chances (again, off the top of my head) that Adama has created:

Pass to MGW against Leicester
Pass to Raul against Spurs that he fired over
Run and pass to Raul that Raul side footed into De Gea against United
Cross for Raul header at Watford
2 crosses popped into areas where we really should have had players waiting for a tap in against Brentford

So there's 8 without thinking about it too much!

Whether you think the metric is ridiculous or not, all the other players in the Premier league are measured by that same metric, and they are all coming in lower except for Raul, yet still we are arguing about dropping him, whilst also saying "we need to score more goals".

It's genuinely daft.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
Well it is guesswork isn't it, as we have metric that measures how many chances, big chances etc that players create, and Adama is our 2nd highest, and one of the highest in the league. You for no ogical reason whatsoever are just dismissing that because "i know better" despite the fact that off the top of my head i can think of several chances that Adama has created.

Both Raul and Adama are listed as having created 2 big chances each.

For Raul i'd imagine that was his chest down against Brentford for Hwang, and his flick for Semedo at Watford.

For Adama off the top of my head, i'd imagine that was the cross at Brentford he put on a plate for Raul, and the chance he laid on at Leicester.

As for other chances (again, off the top of my head) that Adama has created:

Pass to MGW against Leicester
Pass to Raul against Spurs that he fired over
Run and pass to Raul that Raul side footed into De Gea against United
Cross for Raul header at Watford
2 crosses popped into areas where we really should have had players waiting for a tap in against Brentford

So there's 8 without thinking about it too much!

Whether you think the metric is ridiculous or not, all the other players in the Premier league are measured by that same metric, and they are all coming in lower except for Raul, yet still we are arguing about dropping him, whilst also saying "we need to score more goals".

It's genuinely daft.
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Could it be Podence for Trincao then?
 
WsWolf said:
Yeah we looked shit tbh, absolutely nothing to do with Neves forgetting how to do the basics or having absolutely no focal point to play off. It was solely because Adama wasn't on the pitch.

When he's dropped for Podence in a proper 11 we will see if I'm correct won't we.

You seem to think people just hate him or has some mad agenda for no reaaon. He has his strengths but he's not suited to play as an inside forward so he doesn't fit the formation, he rarely passes the ball in an incisive manner he just runs with the ball, great from deep but not so effective when you are receiving the ball the width of the box inside 25 yards. Both Trincao and Podence are better in that situation imo.
Click to expand...

Thing is, Adama criticism does veer in hate/agenda territory. He's thick as pig shit. No brain. Waste of a shirt. Should be sold. Talk about him spannering everything constantly, when actually he often has some pretty sublime ball control. All the gripes about his greasy arms and sitting down after being fouled.

You could get personal with every player in the squad if you wanted, they all can frustrate or exhibit poor form, but it's mainly Adama who gets that microscopic treatment.

Any of his achievements while wearing a Wolves shirt are damned with faint praise, and I think he gets a pretty raw deal; he's actually one of our own players ffs!

To redress this balance I have to come off as an Adama fanboy, when that's not even the case! 😅
 
Those stats that have been shown, are they ‘big chances’ or just actions that lead to a shot? Because if it’s just action that has lead to a shot, it’s a bit misleading.

but there again, amount of assists is also slightly misleading to someone’s creativity.

don’t think anyone can argue traore is one of our main creative outlets. And his output should be higher than what it is.
 
YoungWolf said:
Most of it
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Thanks from watching what made the brief Sky highlights so fair to class these as decent chances
Leicester - Missed 1 on 1. Shot from edge of the box as a result of his own work.
Spurs - Missed 1 on 1. Wouldn't have been his assist, but did well for Raul's good chance which he put over
Utd - Ball to Raul who shoots from the edge of the box, who should have done better.
Watford - Good, but not perfect cross for Trincao's difficult header
Brentford - Hit the bar from his own work

So 4 shots - 2 which should have been goals
Directly involved in 2 good chances and one tough one

Anything else not deemed good enough for highlights
 
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Elephant Pyjamas said:
Well it is guesswork isn't it, as we have metric that measures how many chances, big chances etc that players create, and Adama is our 2nd highest, and one of the highest in the league. You for no ogical reason whatsoever are just dismissing that because "i know better" despite the fact that off the top of my head i can think of several chances that Adama has created.

Both Raul and Adama are listed as having created 2 big chances each.

For Raul i'd imagine that was his chest down against Brentford for Hwang, and his flick for Semedo at Watford.

For Adama off the top of my head, i'd imagine that was the cross at Brentford he put on a plate for Raul, and the chance he laid on at Leicester.

As for other chances (again, off the top of my head) that Adama has created:

Pass to MGW against Leicester
Pass to Raul against Spurs that he fired over
Run and pass to Raul that Raul side footed into De Gea against United
Cross for Raul header at Watford
2 crosses popped into areas where we really should have had players waiting for a tap in against Brentford

So there's 8 without thinking about it too much!

Whether you think the metric is ridiculous or not, all the other players in the Premier league are measured by that same metric, and they are all coming in lower except for Raul, yet still we are arguing about dropping him, whilst also saying "we need to score more goals".

It's genuinely daft.
Click to expand...

The issue I see with those metrics is that e s purely subjective. What constitutes a chance for you and me are probably different. I think we created one half chance against Brentford which you've detailed. For me it's an opportunity you'd expect someone to score from but from what youve detailed here, your bar is lower.
 
Tony Towner said:
Thanks from watching what made the brief Sky highlights so fair to class these as decent chances
Leicester - Missed 1 on 1. Shot from edge of the box as a result of his own work.
Spurs - Missed 1 on 1. Wouldn't have been his assist, but did well for Raul's good chance which he put over
Utd - Ball to Raul who shoots from the edge of the box, who should have done better.
Watford - Good, but not perfect cross for Trincao's difficult header
Brentford - Hit the bar from his own work

So 4 shots - 2 which should have been goals
Directly involved in 2 good chances and one tough one

Anything else not deemed got enough for highlights
Click to expand...
Missed a few there pal, such as the header he put on a plate for Raul against Brentford, it's not just you that forgets this though, everyone seems to have, Traore did everything right there, only for Raul to fuck it up.
 
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