REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

I’m not sure what the Brexiters thought the magical solution was with the Irish border. You either have a hard border in Ireland or a border in the Irish Sea, there is no other option if you’re opting out of the customs union/single market like we did.

You have to admire the brass neck of pro-Brexit MPs to wave through Boris’s fantastic deal without really paying attention to the detail and then complaining about the border which is one of the main things he changed from Theresa May’s deal. Cunts the lot of them.

Premier Quality said:

That’s a shame, I’ve always considered your contributions as intellectual and interesting.

I had a higher opinion of you, I’ll revise you to a member of the echo chamber who can’t debate, but only throw stones going forwards.

im sure you won’t be devastated by that, but it was always nice to have someone who could rise above “black and white” views to debate with on here. Without that, there’s no point.

ill leave you all to your echo chamber, enjoy.

“everything’s shit, brexit is shit, Boris is shit, the toreez are shit, the English are shit, etc etc ad Infinitum.....”

best of luck all, will see you on the wolves threads

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What a tool.

Premier Quality said:

That’s a shame, I’ve always considered your contributions as intellectual and interesting.

I had a higher opinion of you, I’ll revise you to a member of the echo chamber who can’t debate, but only throw stones going forwards.

im sure you won’t be devastated by that, but it was always nice to have someone who could rise above “black and white” views to debate with on here. Without that, there’s no point.

ill leave you all to your echo chamber, enjoy.

“everything’s shit, brexit is shit, Boris is shit, the toreez are shit, the English are shit, etc etc ad Infinitum.....”

best of luck all, will see you on the wolves threads

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The fact you haven't articulated any benefits for Brexit despite numerous asks speaks volumes

What saddens me is that a different solution was in our grasps post referendum but Labour, the Lib Dem’s and the SNP threw it away when all were thinking that a general election would suit their own aims. The opposite happened.

If it all kicks off again, wonder how the mail and the sun will report the IRA, will they be happy homegrown terrorists have taken bombings back from foreign terrorists? Will they be reported as Christian bombings? Or will they be just angry at bombings? Bet the language used won't be as derogatory as it is now

Just so I am clear...
vaccination programme which is a success in the UK, and this success is due to brexit (but it isn't)
increased tensions in Ireland, and the breach of the good friday agreement is irrelevant to this discussion, and isn't due to brexit (even though it explicitly is)

Have I understood the last 5-6 pages correctly?

lemonjelly said:

Have I understood the last 5-6 pages correctly?

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Basically someone says something stupid and then tries to defend the indefensible and then everyone else is really sanctimonious towards him. pretty standard TWF fare, you haven't missed anything really

lemonjelly said:

Just so I am clear...
vaccination programme which is a success in the UK, and this success is due to brexit (but it isn't)
increased tensions in Ireland, and the breach of the good friday agreement is irrelevant to this discussion, and isn't due to brexit (even though it explicitly is)

Have I understood the last 5-6 pages correctly?

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Not quite. If it's good, it's because of Brexit. If it's bad, it's because of the EU.

Paul said:

Basically someone says something stupid and then tries to defend the indefensible and then everyone else is really sanctimonious towards him. pretty standard TWF fare, you haven't missed anything really

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Why are you here?

The Saturday Boy said:

Why are you here?

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Because I'm allowed to be, I hadn't seen anywhere that I was excluded, If you think I'm somehow not of this threads calibre then let me know, I can maybe take the time to further my knowledge on post Brexit import and export issues to maybe offer some further insight into the problems should the need or interest arise, obviously wont be able to raise my game up to the level of such inciteful posts as "what a tool" but one must always have goals (as long as they're attainable.)

The Saturday Boy said:

Why are you here?

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To add 'balance'.

Paul said:

Because I'm allowed to be, I hadn't seen anywhere that I was excluded, If you think I'm somehow not of this threads calibre then let me know, I can maybe take the time to further my knowledge on post Brexit import and export issues to maybe offer some further insight into the problems should the need or interest arise, obviously wont be able to raise my game up to the level of such inciteful posts as "what a tool" but one must always have goals (as long as they're attainable.)

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Thanks. I am none the wiser but I am grateful for your explanation.

Professor Michael Dougan, Professor of European Law at Liverpool University gives his thoughts on the latest developments with the Northern Ireland Protocol. "What should we make of the latest developments over NI and the Protocol, i.e. UK’s (second, clear) breach of international legal obligations + escalation of DUP-led agitation through direct loyalist threats to GFA? A few thoughts... The Most generous explanation for HMG’s actions? The Tories are now more worried about potential for DUP & paramilitary allies to plunge NI into serious disorder, than about immediate legal and diplomatic consequences of UK’s international lawbreaking But more the likely explanation (since it fits into clear & established pattern), Johnson only ever signed Protocol to “get Brexit done” with no real grasp of its implications / sincere intention of implementing it in good faith, so HMG simply places little value on own compliance Combined with (in general) the ideologue’s belief in untrammelled state sovereignty, where rules are optional and obligations exist only for others; and (in particular) the Europhobe’s contempt for the EU, its very existence being a source for spite and antagonism But UK conduct is unsustainable. We know the Protocol is result of choices made by Johnson & approved by Parliament; there is no credible alternative; it requires trust & cooperation to work; such trust requires honesty, not least about price NI must pay for Johnson’s Hard Brexit Yet Johnson continues to cover his tracks & mislead the public: “The position of Northern Ireland within the UK internal market is rock solid and guaranteed”. It isn’t. The UK state decided (& it was a choice) that one cost of Hard Brexit = NI’s legal and economic segregation from GB So long as Johnson refuses to be open and honest, certain NI unionists might believe there’s still a “better solution” - if only they can pile on enough pressure. There isn’t. NI unionists need to understand and accept a brute fact, however unpleasant it may be: That English nationalists pursued Brexit regardless of cost to UK itself, with DUP's active assistance. No point complaining about threats to British identity, because the very meaning of “British identity” has been radically redefined by Tory Government and Parliament. Would be right, eg for EU+US to pile serious pressure on Johnson Regime / make clear & tangible price to be paid by international delinquents. But ultimately NI’s stability depends on NI unionists accepting that Brexit changed everything, and the Tories need to stop lying about it."

The Saturday Boy said:

Why are you here?

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I did mean to ask is the emphasis on the 'are' or 'you' ?

Paul said:

I did mean to ask is the emphasis on the 'are' or 'you' ?

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That's a very interesting question and raises the possibility of a meaningful philosophical debate, one that has both interested and perplexed minds greater than mine. I recall an episode of Paddington Bear when he pondered this very issue but I am not sure he came to a conclusion other than it may have had something to do with marmalade sandwiches.

Marmalade must be really difficult to spread on cold bread.

MARKakaJIM said:

Marmalade must be really difficult to spread on cold bread.

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Are you thinking of marmite?

Del Woppio said:

Are you thinking of marmite?

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No.

Marmalade is just orange jam isn't it?

Del Woppio said:

Marmalade is just orange jam isn't it?

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Having made jam sandwiches I didn't find it that difficult.

Granted I wasn't doing it with bear paws or in some sort of fridge where you'd have cold bread (who has cold bread?)

I don't think I've ever seen warm marmalade.