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Summer 2021 transfer window

AndyWolves said:
We're apparently under a restriction due to breaking UEFA FFP when we got into the Europa League.

It's not PL rules we're obeying, it's the restrictions / agreement we're under as a result of breaking UEFA FFP rules.
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It's bollocks though isn't it, as it's only an issue if we are actually in European competition, which we are not.

Also, how are City able to spend 100mill on Grealish and 150m on Kane? We're being sold a lie.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
Well, it's in direct contradiction to what they said they were going to do, Shi said we'd be challenging for the league title/champions league places within 5-10 years.
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Is it? That could still happen within 10 years whilst treating the club like an investment. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
 
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Elephant Pyjamas said:
It's bollocks though isn't it, as it's only an issue if we are actually in European competition, which we are not.

Also, how are City able to spend 100mill on Grealish and 150m on Kane? We're being sold a lie.
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Is it bollocks though? I'm pretty sure the agreement applies regardless of whether we're in Europe or not.

You'd have to tell my why man city spending that much breaks FFP, from what I understand their income is orders of magnitude higher than ours.
 
YoungWolf said:
It is, but the reason I don't believe it is the issue is because as far as I can tell it doesnt mean a zero net spend. We spent as much as we did in the first season and made a £20m profit, did we not? Second season was a 40m loss because of Covid, but I don't see it being that much as an issue for the next financial year?
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Shouldn't be as when we eventually release the accounts for 2020/21, there'll be two lots of prize money in there for a start. We didn't have any of that in 2019/20's accounts as the season hadn't finished.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
It's bollocks though isn't it, as it's only an issue if we are actually in European competition, which we are not.

Also, how are City able to spend 100mill on Grealish and 150m on Kane? We're being sold a lie.
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Manchester City generate significantly more revenue than we do. Although what they receive from domestic competition (merit payment, TV deals etc) is not significantly more than us they are regularly playing in the Champions league and have been operating at the higher end of the Premier League significantly longer than us.

We have to abide by UEFA restrictions, which aren't particularly onerous, for another season.
 
AndyWolves said:
Is it bollocks though? I'm pretty sure the agreement applies regardless of whether we're in Europe or not.

You'd have to tell my why man city spending that much breaks FFP, from what I understand their income is orders of magnitude higher than ours.
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City have repeatedly broken FFP rules, but they manage to wriggle out of the more extreme punishments, they end up with a 23man squad, or a fine rather than being kicked out off the competition.

I'm pretty sure that the agreement only applies if you are in Europe.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Manchester City generate significantly more revenue than we do. Although what they receive from domestic competition (merit payment, TV deals etc) is not significantly more than us they are regularly playing in the Champions league and have been operating at the higher end of the Premier League significantly longer than us.

We have to abide by UEFA restrictions, which aren't particularly onerous, for another season.
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City HAVE broken European FFP rules have they not?
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
It's bollocks though isn't it, as it's only an issue if we are actually in European competition, which we are not.

Also, how are City able to spend 100mill on Grealish and 150m on Kane? We're being sold a lie.
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The rules on UEFA FFP have changed since we were punished but we still have to operate under those terms of the agreement. Apart from the losses part, we have no clue what else is included really. We actually failed the 2nd part but that was because our income was damaged by the late finish to the season, so you would hope UEFA adjusted shit based on figures we could give for the next check.

On City, well a combination of things really - multiple PL Champions, CL money, owner that can/will put in millions and millions in and of course they are dodgy as fuck and have already dodged one UEFA bullet (remember when we all got excited as they were being kicked out of the CL and made our Euro chances better).
Many ways we can dodge FFP but either reluctant or don't want to have UEFA looking at us in more detail. A long way off being able to do what City do or even PSG even if the owners suddenly injected cash into our veins
 
YoungWolf said:
It is, but the reason I don't believe it is the issue is because as far as I can tell it doesnt mean a zero net spend. We spent as much as we did in the first season and made a £20m profit, did we not? Second season was a 40m loss because of Covid, but I don't see it being that much as an issue for the next financial year?
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That's fair, I don't think we will be in a net zero spend situation though, but will be as close as possible.

We've probably added a couple of M to our amortisation from our dealings so far, and I would guess we have a bit more wiggle room within the confines of "the agreement".
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
City HAVE broken European FFP rules have they not?
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Yes and No...

The figures they give to UEFA say no
When UEFA look at them and ask how has Street Cars from Manchester sponsored you for £108m per year and ban them
City then go to Court and spend more on legal fees than we did for Fabio and win
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
City have repeatedly broken FFP rules, but they manage to wriggle out of the more extreme punishments, they end up with a 23man squad, or a fine rather than being kicked out off the competition.

I'm pretty sure that the agreement only applies if you are in Europe.
Click to expand...

www.uefa.com

Club Financial Control Body | Inside UEFA

UEFA's decision-making body in charge of club licensing and financial sustainability.
www.uefa.com www.uefa.com

Look at our ruling, section 9, first point.

I can't copy the text unfortunately.
 
The 19/20 loss was a paper loss. We will have made a significant profit again (all we lost was 4 games gate money which they didn’t actually pay back).

We will have lost about £20m from Covid in 20/21. Given we barely spent anything in the transfer market we will probably still make a profit.

FFP isn’t a factor and I’m not having cash flow either for the reasons TSB says.

They want us to be self sufficient, fine. But with the big 6 having more money, Villa and Everton chucking money at it, Leicester being better at the “model” whilst also having owners wanting to chuck money in then midtable is the best you can hope for unless you have elite coaching, recruitment and/or youth set up to try to bridge the gap. Do we have any of that?
 
AndyWolves said:
Man city have posted profits apart from the Covid season for the last 5 seasons.
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Didn’t City get away with it because it was “too long ago”. Basically took UEFA too long to sort their shit out so the City lawyers found some loophole that meant nothing could be done about it.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
City HAVE broken European FFP rules have they not?
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Never said they didn’t. I just pointed out that their base is significantly higher than ours to explain why they can spend more in transfer fees…but they will amortise them in the same way other clubs do.
 
It occurred to me that you could plot the different owner mentalities against something akin to the political compass.

  • A 'Benefactor' invests in a club for emotional reasons
  • A 'CEO' invests in a club for financial reasons
  • An 'Optimist' wants to bring success by investing rapidly, often in excess of the club's revenue
  • A 'Pessimist' takes a more pragmatic approach and is primarily interested in balancing the books

This is where I see the past three incumbents, alongside a couple of other PL examples:

1628076589018.png
 
I'd love one of the journalists to ask some questions and get something proper on this FFP/UEFA restrictions stuff.

I only understand it to a point and some people are convinced it's stopping us spending and some are convinced it's not.
 
This is from our FFP agreement, to me, it looks like we're still under the conditions of the agreement
 

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We are still benefitting from Fosun’s initial investment. The initial injection was largely responsible for promotion. Subsequent sales of Jota, Costa, Cav - all players only at the club because of Fosun - have added to that initial investment.

The responsibility lies with the football side to capitalise. They seem to have done ok with Nero replacing Jota, it remains to be seen whether Semedo is better than Doherty, Yelsen better than Saiss/Coady/Boly….
 
Deano said:
I'd love one of the journalists to ask some questions and get something proper on this FFP/UEFA restrictions stuff.

I only understand it to a point and some people are convinced it's stopping us spending and some are convinced it's not.
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They should have been lining up to ask this after the Q&A stuff with JP.

If they can't get an in with the club, then do an opinion piece. May get it horribly wrong but it may make the club come out and correct things.
 
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