The Bruno Lage Appreciation Thread

Tony Towner · Sep 21, 2021

If Brentford aren't notionally worse than us because they beat Arsenal then there won't be many on the list. If Newcastle and Burnley are then our record against 1 is average and the other poor, kind of showing the fragility of the argument

AndyWolves · Sep 21, 2021

Deutsch Wolf said:
I don't know, I certainly doubt they automatically think they'll lose though or just say "it's ok" if and when they do.

Who are these notionally worse teams?

You don't know if Saints would take points off Man City? Come on, everyone in the footballing world expects man city to beat Southampton every time they play.

I don't think they'll evaluate the success or otherwise of their manager if they lose to man city.

AndyWolves · Sep 21, 2021

Tony Towner said:
If Brentford aren't notionally worse than us because they beat Arsenal then there won't be many on the list. If Newcastle and Burnley are then our record against 1 is average and the other poor, kind of showing the fragility of the argument

Yep, and that's why relegation is a possibility.

It wasn't so much that they beat arsenal, it was the way they beat them. And I haven't said Brentford are better than us, I said it's the 1 game Lage has performed below expectations.

I just don't see the logic in saying we've got a shit squad but then also expecting us to get results against teams who finished in Europe.

How can those two things both be true?

Deutsch Wolf · Sep 21, 2021

AndyWolves said:
You don't know if Saints would take points off Man City? Come on, everyone in the footballing world expects man city to beat Southampton every time they play.

I don't think they'll evaluate the success or otherwise of their manager if they lose to man city.

I suspect if they lost 80% of their games they would think the manager is a bit of an issue.

Tony Towner · Sep 21, 2021

AndyWolves said:
Yep, and that's why relegation is a possibility.

It wasn't so much that they beat arsenal, it was the way they beat them. And I haven't said Brentford are better than us, I said it's the 1 game Lage has performed below expectations.

I just don't see the logic in saying we've got a shit squad but then also expecting us to get results against teams who finished in Europe.

How can those two things both be true?

Our squad isn't shit, it lacks a box to box midfielder and a commanding centre half

Deano · Sep 21, 2021

I do worry about Sa as well. I like some aspects of his game but there always seems to be something with him. He's cost us a couple of goals already and then there was that time he tried to driblle out with it Saturday and he got tackled nearly gifting them another one

Deutsch Wolf · Sep 21, 2021

Is the list of "notionally worse" teams:

Brentford (already lost to these)
Burnley
Newcastle
Norwich
Watford

Because if so, that gives us a maximum of 27 points.

Deutsch Wolf · Sep 21, 2021

Deano said:
I do worry about Sa as well. I like some aspects of his game but there always seems to be something with him. He's cost us a couple of goals already and then there was that time he tried to driblle out with it Saturday and he got tackled nearly gifting them another one

That wasn't even the worst one on Saturday. The one where they hit the bar at the end, he randomly ran miles out of position. Left essentially the entire goal unguarded. Their guy never spotted it or he could have just rolled it in.

Tony Towner · Sep 21, 2021

I do think the jury is very much out

Tony Towner · Sep 21, 2021

Deutsch Wolf said:
That wasn't even the worst one on Saturday. The one where they hit the bar at the end, he randomly ran miles out of position. Left essentially the entire goal unguarded. Their guy never spotted it or he could have just rolled it in.

That was truly bizarre, he looked pissed

AndyWolves · Sep 21, 2021

Deutsch Wolf said:
Is the list of "notionally worse" teams:

Brentford (already lost to these)
Burnley
Newcastle
Norwich
Watford

Because if so, that gives us a maximum of 27 points.

Those are games I'd expect us to do well in.

There are a bracket of teams where any result is equally likely such as Everton, Leeds, Southampton

There is another bracket where I don't expect us to get anything but with a favourable wind we might such as Spurs, Leicester, villa.

And there is a bracket of teams where I just don't think we'll get any kind of result at all such as man United, man city, Liverpool, Chelsea etc

Johnny75 · Sep 21, 2021

Tony Towner said:
Our squad isn't shit, it lacks a box to box midfielder and a commanding centre half

I don’t think either of those change our inability to score goals.

We certainly need wide forwards who can score and a firing Raul. Two wing backs who can deliver passes forwards/ crosses/ goals would be nice in a 3-4-3 too.

Our recruitment has been truly appalling for 3 years.

Lage, to his credit has got the players to carve out chances in the first 3 games, it isn’t his fault the club have provided him with players who can’t finish.

We have looked relatively comfortable defending and it was individual errors that cost us goals in those games.

Deutsch Wolf · Sep 21, 2021

AndyWolves said:
And there is a bracket of teams where I just don't think we'll get any kind of result at all such as man United, man city, Liverpool, Chelsea etc

But we've beaten Chelsea two times out of three at home since we came up? Deserved to as well. Within seconds of winning at Stamford Bridge the one year too, and also got a draw last season.

I just don't get this mindset and I can't even pretend to, surely going toe to toe with these teams for three years and on the whole coming out with massive credit should have binned any kind of inferiority complex? Apparently not.

I mean yesterday you were saying Brighton and Palace are definitively better than us, how has that happened?

AndyWolves · Sep 21, 2021

Deutsch Wolf said:
But we've beaten Chelsea two times out of three at home since we came up? Deserved to as well. Within seconds of winning at Stamford Bridge the one year too, and also got a draw last season.

I just don't get this mindset and I can't even pretend to, surely going toe to toe with these teams for three years and on the whole coming out with massive credit should have binned any kind of inferiority complex? Apparently not.

I mean yesterday you were saying Brighton and Palace are definitively better than us, how has that happened?

That's when we were better than we are now though. I just can't see how we can expect to get anything from Chelsea at home this season. Don't get me wrong, I really really hope we do but it just seems very unlikely.

Brighton and Palace are both scoring goals and we aren't.

Brighton have a really strong spine

Can't remember the GKs name
Two giant CBs
Bissouma
Maupay & Welbeck who are both better than our forwards at the moment.

Palace have decent CBs, Connor Gallagher, and Zaha & Odonne who seem like are capable of scoring goals.

Both have lost less than we have, both scored more than we have.

Deutsch Wolf · Sep 21, 2021

So essentially you expect us to finish about 15th-16th.

Which is fine and all that, but I don't think that tallies with "Lage has dispelled all doubts that he was the right man to succeed Nuno".

At the moment I'm sceptical that we'll finish that high as I don't see us ever scrapping out a result. I think if we play well we have a chance against pretty much anyone. If we're off it then we will lose, no ifs, no buts. That's not a good recipe.

AndyWolves · Sep 21, 2021

I think Lage has us playing better than Nuno would have but that's not a rabbit hole I really want to go down.

Tony Towner · Sep 21, 2021

Lage is proving what I said at the point he was given the gig. He has a higher ceiling and lower floor than Nuno. I still think it could go both ways

Deutsch Wolf · Sep 21, 2021

I reckon there was as good as a 0% chance of us going down under Nuno.

I reckon there's a significant chance we'll go down this season under Lage. I certainly don't see us finishing higher than 13th, which is where we finished last season.

Tony Towner · Sep 21, 2021

Don't disagree with any of that but you do have to take into account the lack of backing in the transfer market when considering the ceiling element. It's not difficult to see what his ideal set up would look like and how he can't really play it without taking a big gamble defensively

Deutsch Wolf · Sep 21, 2021

Yeah, but it's a bit like Moyes saying he'd have been brilliant for United if he'd been allowed to sign all the players he wanted. He didn't get them, you have to work with what you have, if you're shit then you get canned.

We have been shit so far.

The Bruno Lage Appreciation Thread

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