Coronavirus

[PuntsWolf]

From what Penk puts on twitter he is suggesting the majority of hospital admission for COVID are people who were already in hospital and have caught it whilst they are there.

 

[Dire Wolf]

Nottingham going into Tier 3 plus.

So we're up to 5 levels now. 1, 1+, 2, 3 and 3+.

Tiers of a clown...

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Ah mate, I know that I'm neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. But it's the blasé attitude of "oh well it'll be inconvenient but we can do it" that I don't like. It's not inconvenient for me, it's life altering. I genuinely don't know if I can do it again.

I was tidying some stuff up yesterday and found the paramedics report when they got called here at 4 in the morning. That was five months ago. There have been some big steps then because seriously, I was that close to calling it a day altogether. Put me back in that position again (and I have more at stake now) and I don't know. I genuinely don't know. It's a hell of a risk.

I'm not saying it's easy to choose between protecting 85 year olds in care homes and 39 year olds with what they used to call manic depression. Neither are ideal. Just don't portray it as one should suck it up for the other because I certainly don't do it the other way.

There's certainly no easy way through it that covers all bases and keeps everyone, relatively at least, happy at the same time.

I think flip-flapping between periods of stricter measures and more relaxed is probably the best way to manage things until a vaccine is widely available, or some other means of controlling/treating this condition. Would I be right in thinking shorter periods of this type of restriction would be easier for someone such as yourself to deal with? If it was limited to 2-4 week periods of strict measures, say you might have to pick one of the three of your immediate support network for that period as your only physical contact but with the prospect that you've then got 8-10 weeks of almost normality to make up for lost time before something similar being enforced once more. That may be more palatable for some I'd imagine than 2-3 months or more of fairly strict controls that are slowly, and somewhat confusingly relaxed, on a haphazard timetable that impossible to predict.

My mind wandered off on my last post before I reached this point, but my main line of thinking was just the way people's attitudes have changed and how that perhaps reinforces some of the talk early on when lockdown was delayed that the idea of 'lockdown fatigue' would creep in if entered too early and thus prolonged. I think for some people they have just lost interest in it, it's lost it's sense of importance perhaps and so their compliance with the rules is now more difficult to obtain. You couple that with mismatch restriction in different areas, the sense of jealously that can create, and you've got an even bigger job trying to get people to toe the line when they can see others not being asked to do the same. I've seen some lose explanations of the criteria for localised lockdowns but without better clarity and communication people are going to make their own conclusions based on the slim information available, generally infection numbers/rates, and so you get this sniping at different areas with lower numbers that remain in lower tiers when it's not really that simple, at least I hope not.

The psychological side of things is going to be a really difficult thing to manage, how to manage peoples expectations and promote conformity with the rules. I've seen a few things this week with lads I know through football that have shown up some big differences.

Firstly we had the announcement of some restrictions when Nottingham was confirmed to be going into tier 3, our team is 'based' within the tier 3 area and so could now only play other teams in that area, not allowed to travel outside of it. However, majority of our players live outside of that area so we'd have perhaps been better able to get a team out if considered tier 1 or 2 and grouped with those teams instead. There was a real mix of people happy to consider themselves in different tiers dependent on whether it'd better enable them to continue to play or avoid the risk of mixing, trying to find ways around the limitations or play them in our favour some how. Eventually asked the league to postpone all our games through the 28 day period to save people being silly and making their own rules.

Then today witnessed even greater nonsense between the group of lads we used to play with last year, one of their players was turned away from work Monday with a temperature so got tested and today found out he had covid, que the bunfight. Some lads desperate to get in on the track and trace list or just went straight ahead and booked tests themselves, two weeks off work in isolation right on half term and all that. Then you've got others equally desperate to avoid it, centre halves saying it didn't matter to them because lad who'd got it played up front and had been miles away from them all game because they knew two weeks off work for them meant two weeks with no pay. So everyone is in their groupchat spamming their own justification for their course of action, posting links and screengrabs of different supporting information based on different interpretations of contact to suit their desired outcome.

Obviously action has to come from the top down but whatever the rules and measures that are chosen, finding a way to communicate and encourage compliance among the masses has to be a priority, it needs everyone to buy in regardless otherwise it all just become a fractured measure. I think that's why it's so difficult, no matter what you try to plot as the best way of dealing with it, somewhere it's going to be detrimental to individuals or groups and so you're going to struggle to get that buy in which means you don't get the level of compliance required to make it work.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The messaging really is a mess.

Aye, a defined period, I could deal with that. I was worried about this a little while back and I said to our lass "look, it'll be shit, but if it's 21 days then I can just count down, 21, 20, 19 etc etc ".

Just going "it's lockdown" and there's no actual end is a real problem for me.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It is for all of us. My grandchild arrives in a few weeks. Would quite like to get acquainted. My marriage is done. My social bubble is my wife. My solution is emigration to see my only other living family. No visas.

 

[Tuco]

I didn’t see my girlfriend for 10 weeks during the lockdown, if they were to announce another one maybe it’d be as long again but for me the longer they leave it the more likely that becomes when they eventually do something.

 

[lemonjelly]

I feel that in march, the vast majority appreciated the implications of the situation. Plus, saving the NHS was an easy bandwagon to adopt. This was aided by the time of year - spring, and a pretty nice one, with summer on the way. Evenings getting lighter. People scoped the opportunities they could to make the best of a bad situation. There were communal spirits, we were in this together, people looked out for others, and started doing things for the benefit of others.

Now however, we're fragmented in too many ways. As a result, there's no consensus, and we see the differences, and perceive it unfair them down the road have more freedoms. Evenings are dark, and long. The weather has also changed, meaning less scope for other meetings, or time outside, so we feel more restricted in what we can do. There's a lot more of a malaise now.

This isn't/hasn't been helped by government/advisers/staff etc breaching the guidance themselves, and giving pathetic, or even no explanation. A sense developed of "one rule for them". This is being exacerbated by regional decisions, whether these are right or wrong. The issue is the perception - and this relates to the point that has been made about communication of policy.

Likewise, DW posted recently that after almost three quarters of a year of this, we have zero road map for any way out. There is little guidance I am aware of for how areas will come out of tier 3. In the absence of that, people are being asked to make sacrifices on what is looking like a pipe dream. We've gone from it being over in 12 weeks, to by the new school year, to back to normal by christmas, to the next 6 months (ie easter). All we have learned in that time is the government has no strategy, and there appear to be gross inconsistencies in their thinking/ideology - for example test and trace must be done on a national basis, yet school meal decisions are best decided locally.

So there's an absence of trust, and that is spreading. More people are now interpreting the rules in a way that suits them. I fully expect a lot of people will be gathering indoors with families over christmas.

I can't see a way this government is going to recoup the collective trust anymore. As a result, things are likely to worsen, unless a vaccine comes forth very soon.

 

[Tredman]

R above 2 in the South.

Covid has hit 'critical' stage in England, research finds

Dramatic increase in recorded cases across country, with infection rate rising fastest in south

www.theguardian.com

I’m going to place a large bet that we have national lockdown as in France within 2 week.

 

[Tredman]

It is for all of us. My grandchild arrives in a few weeks. Would quite like to get acquainted. My marriage is done. My social bubble is my wife. My solution is emigration to see my only other living family. No visas.

Friends of ours were granted permenant Australian visas this week. They started the application in February, but looks like it still is possible.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Interesting. What I have to do for my circumstances is get the usual 12 month tourist visa and then apply for Remaining Relative Visa sub class 835 when I am out there.

It appears that getting the tourist visa right now is the sticky bit. It’s okay. I can be patient.

 

[Tredman]

Ah yes, can imagine tourist visa would be tricky. Our company had to get business visas for 2 people just recently and it was very difficult.

 

[AndyWolves]

From what Penk puts on twitter he is suggesting the majority of hospital admission for COVID are people who were already in hospital and have caught it whilst they are there.

Now that's interesting, I also wonder if this is why they're so keen to vaccinate HCW before the end of the year

 

[Templeton Peck]

Fine. So mental health doesn't matter at all then?

I've just explained my situation above. If you'd like to square that circle then I'm all ears.

Not that it doesn't matter at all but 45000 dead and rising and the potential collapse of the NHS are pretty powerful arguments for a temporary lockdown. If we lost this many people to terrorism in 8 months people would be demanding martial law.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Bottom line is that the stronger the lockdown the sooner we could have come out of it. Boris's weak approach has resulted in the nonsense we have now. A 2 week lockdown would take the pressure off according to SAGE.

 

[Dire Wolf]

The thing with mental health issues is that they are exacerbated if there seems no end. Personally, I think a stringent 4 -6 week lockdown where things are got under some control and then people are allowed to live a more (if not completely) normal way of life would maybe be more acceptable. And if that has to go in cycles where you have 4-6 week lockdowns with a few months of relative normality and freedom, I think people could accept and deal with that. This never ending half arsed nonsense just doesn't fly with so many people that it just is failing.

 

[AndyWolves]

The thing with mental health issues is that they are exacerbated if there seems no end. Personally, I think a stringent 4 -6 week lockdown where things are got under some control and then people are allowed to live a more (if not completely) normal way of life would maybe be more acceptable. And if that has to go in cycles where you have 4-6 week lockdowns with a few months of relative normality and freedom, I think people could accept and deal with that. This never ending half arsed nonsense just doesn't fly with so many people that it just is failing.

This is exactly what's required, whether it can be implemented and adhered to is another question.

The messaging around current restrictions is all over the place with people not really sure what they can and can't do

 

[The Bear]

People who suffer from mental health issues need to look after themselves as safely as they can, even in a lockdown. In Deutsch's case he should absolutely see his dad, brother and girlfriend. Just do it in a way as safely as possible. Exceptions have to be made in individual cases.

 

[sycophantia]

People who suffer from mental health issues need to look after themselves as safely as they can, even in a lockdown. In Deutsch's case he should absolutely see his dad, brother and girlfriend. Just do it in a way as safely as possible. Exceptions have to be made in individual cases.

i agree

 

[sycophantia]

I tend to agree with the idea of a time limited hard national lockdown, the problem is how long for? And if at the end of that time the numbers are no better, what happens then?

 

[AndyWolves]

I tend to agree with the idea of a time limited hard national lockdown, the problem is how long for? And if at the end of that time the numbers are no better, what happens then?

We try something else, doing nothing is not an option.