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EL Cup: Wolves 2-2 Spurs - Bah Lost on Penalties Verdict Thread

Johnny75

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Well it is guesswork isn't it, as we have metric that measures how many chances, big chances etc that players create, and Adama is our 2nd highest, and one of the highest in the league. You for no ogical reason whatsoever are just dismissing that because "i know better" despite the fact that off the top of my head i can think of several chances that Adama has created.

Both Raul and Adama are listed as having created 2 big chances each.

For Raul i'd imagine that was his chest down against Brentford for Hwang, and his flick for Semedo at Watford.

For Adama off the top of my head, i'd imagine that was the cross at Brentford he put on a plate for Raul, and the chance he laid on at Leicester.

As for other chances (again, off the top of my head) that Adama has created:

Pass to MGW against Leicester
Pass to Raul against Spurs that he fired over
Run and pass to Raul that Raul side footed into De Gea against United
Cross for Raul header at Watford
2 crosses popped into areas where we really should have had players waiting for a tap in against Brentford

So there's 8 without thinking about it too much!

Whether you think the metric is ridiculous or not, all the other players in the Premier league are measured by that same metric, and they are all coming in lower except for Raul, yet still we are arguing about dropping him, whilst also saying "we need to score more goals".

It's genuinely daft.
I need the laughing emoji back.

Including 2 crosses where players 'should be' is genuinely fucking hilarious.
 

prawnking

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He does mean one season record.

Yep, I stated that clearly the first time I used the stat.

Even if you take it cumulatively, it still begs the question why he gets so little respect compared to Raul and Moutinho, and there's such eagerness to relegate him to third or fourth wide choice?
 

PuntsWolf

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It’s a pretty basic formula.

Traore puts in 10 crossess. Of which 8 are terrible, 1 is ok. 1 is good.

Another player puts in 3 crosses, of which one is poor (not terrible), one is ok and one is good.

The actual output is the same. But on one side of the fence people are noticing him wasting so many opportunities, whereas the other side of the fence are loving that he’s destroyed a FB again even if he did put it in the stand afterwards.

At the end of the day. Even if his cross his good, the 5 players in the box aren’t going to score. 4 of them can’t head and the one can has just come back from a broken head.
 

Johnny75

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Exactly.

So dropping him would be a bit daft, that's not to say i don't want him to operate on the inside left as he was, i do.
This is madness.

We have scored two goals in the league and they were in one game!

We need to try something different and playing with inside forwards who can score and assist seem to be it.

Podence for Traore seems an obvious choice, you could argue Hwang for Raul too.
 

Deutsch Wolf

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Correction, we have scored one goal.

Watford decided to score an inexplicable own goal.
 

Johnny75

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It’s a pretty basic formula.

Traore puts in 10 crossess. Of which 8 are terrible, 1 is ok. 1 is good.

Another player puts in 3 crosses, of which one is poor (not terrible), one is ok and one is good.

The actual output is the same. But on one side of the fence people are noticing him wasting so many opportunities, whereas the other side of the fence are loving that he’s destroyed a FB again even if he did put it in the stand afterwards.

At the end of the day. Even if his cross his good, the 5 players in the box aren’t going to score. 4 of them can’t head and the one can has just come back from a broken head.
Exactly this, putting crosses in is completely ineffective for this team, so continuing to do it is crazy.
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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I need the laughing emoji back.

Including 2 crosses where players 'should be' is genuinely fucking hilarious.
Dropping the ball over the keeper, one foot from the back post, yes. Damn fucking right we should have a player there!

Also dropping the ball to where Trincao and Podence were headed, but they've inexplicably both ran to the middle of the goal, rather than one to the centre and one to the back post. Yes.

The general consensus is that Adama overhits his crosses, and/or that they go to the back post.

Well lets have some players there waiting for that eventuality then, it's not rocket science is it!? It's basic bloody attacking football intelligence.
 

Johnny75

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Dropping the ball over the keeper, one foot from the back post, yes. Damn fucking right we should have a player there!

Also dropping the ball to where Trincao and Podence were headed, but they've inexplicably both ran to the middle of the goal, rather than one to the centre and one to the back post. Yes.
Crossing to players that aren't there is not a chance and is just a fucking terrible decision by the crosser.

It means he hasn't assessed the situation and has blindly made a decision. That rarely ends well.
 

Carsy

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Exactly this, putting crosses in is completely ineffective for this team, so continuing to do it is crazy.
Not sure if it’s still the same debate raging, but I don’t think the ‘chance creation’ stat will include crosses put into areas where no one is.
He must create some chances of note, especially when our X goals stat is the highest in the league (could be wrong with that but think I read it earlier)

to say he doesn’t create anything is laughable.

to say he’s created 12 (or what the stats say) ‘clear cut chances’ is equally laughable.
 

AndyWolves

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Would shot creating actions divided by total xA give a rough quality of chance metric?

Edit. It wouldn't account for crosses that don't go to anyone though
 

Johnny75

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Would shot creating actions divided by total xA give a rough quality of chance metric?

Edit. It wouldn't account for crosses that don't go to anyone though
No.
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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Crossing to players that aren't there is not a chance and is just a fucking terrible decision by the crosser.

It means he hasn't assessed the situation and has blindly made a decision. That rarely ends well.
For the Traincao/Podence one, both players were at the back post, in the time it took between Adama looking up and crossing, they had ran to the centre of the goal. It was shite on their part.

For the one that looped over the keeper, again, he put it in the only area where the keeper or defender wouldn't have just cleared it, but once again, a ball drops literally 1 or 2 feet away from an empty net within the bounds of the posts and we don't have a player there to tap it in.
It was dismal, all those attacking players on the pitch and not one near the goal! But blame the guy who has put the ball there all you like, despite him having no other obvious option that wouldn't have resulted in the ball just being cleared or caught by the keeper.
 

Johnny75

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You are blaming other people for not getting on the end of a cross.

Who had the most control in that situation?

Hint: It's not the runners
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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Not sure if it’s still the same debate raging, but I don’t think the ‘chance creation’ stat will include crosses put into areas where no one is.
He must create some chances of note, especially when our X goals stat is the highest in the league (could be wrong with that but think I read it earlier)

to say he doesn’t create anything is laughable.

to say he’s created 12 (or what the stats say) ‘clear cut chances’ is equally laughable.
Again, it wasn't clear cut chances. It was 12 chances of which 2 were big chances.
 

sycophantia

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I'm not sure why every view has to be so extreme and reactionary. I don't think there's a hate agenda against Traore on here (apart from one or two people). I keep reading, who is gonna replace Adama and that Trincao is no better or might in fact be worse... but its not just about the individual, its also how those individuals might link up and combine. I'm not saying a front 3 or 4 from Raul, Trincao, Podence and Hwang would be any better than with Adama in there but history suggests Traore is more of an individual (A bloody good un) than the others. We have a squad, let's use it.
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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You are blaming other people for not getting on the end of a cross.

Who had the most control in that situation?

Hint: It's not the runners
Damn right i am, when a ball is manoeuvred into a position where it is 1 to 5 foot away from the goal on the floor or at head height i fully expect a player to be there! Especially when we have 6 forwards on the pitch, it's quite astonishing that you suggest otherwise?

Where else should they be!??
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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I'm not sure why every view has to be so extreme and reactionary. I don't think there's a hate agenda against Traore on here (apart from one or two people). I keep reading, who is gonna replace Adama and that Trincao is no better or might in fact be worse... but its not just about the individual, its also how those individuals might link up and combine. I'm not saying a front 3 or 4 from Raul, Trincao, Podence and Hwang would be any better than with Adama in there but history suggests Traore is more of an individual (A bloody good un) than the others. We have a squad, let's use it.
Lets get this right here, no one is being reactionary other than those are suggesting that independently collated stats across the league stats aren't true, and/or that Traore doesn't create chances.

It's just patently untrue.
 

Deutsch Wolf

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I didn't say he doesn't create chances.

I said 12 chances is bollocks, which it quite clearly fucking is.
 
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