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Johnny75

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Cathro joined us the summer after being promoted.

I don’t think anyone knows his role or influence at all to know how he helped shape our football under Nuno. Not sure why people are so keen/quick to point to him as a negative.
Sorry YW, I was being slightly sarcastic.
 

Deutsch Wolf

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If Rui is forever at 2020/21 levels then yes, Sa is probably an upgrade. Not by enough though as essentially we've swapped one keeper who was costing us goals and had serious flaws in his game for pretty much the same thing.

It'd be like selling Dendoncker and signing another midfielder who can't pass, shoot or run with the ball. It's a negligible net gain.
 

Tredman

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If Rui is forever at 2020/21 levels then yes, Sa is probably an upgrade. Not by enough though as essentially we've swapped one keeper who was costing us goals and had serious flaws in his game for pretty much the same thing.

It'd be like selling Dendoncker and signing another midfielder who can't pass, shoot or run with the ball. It's a negligible net gain.
Not sure I agree there, we have swapped for a very definite different skill-set. Yes he has a rick in him, but so far that's possibly cost us around 1 goal.

His ability to launch attacks quicker has definitely created at least one goal and has helped the whole team get higher up the pitch.
 

Wilf Wolf

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I agree Spurs was always about when they'd sack him. His contract was pretty much structured for them to bin him this coming Summer, but his body language, style of play and reluctance to change when things weren't working was enough to tell me that it would have been the same again at Wolves. He'll be back at some point and hopefully for him reenergised, but whatever it was that made him so flat and his team so dull clearly hasn't gone away.
You’re probably correct, I guess I’m still far from convinced that the replacement is any better. If we aren’t prepared to let Lage bring players in to allow him to play how he wants (I’m assuming we aren’t currently!) the switch was purely cosmetic.
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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Man Utd, Newcastle and Palace's first are all on him. We've only played 11 games...
Whilst I agree, Hwang has been at fault for 2 goals we've conceded, one hugely v Villa, and one less so against Palace. So he's almost as bad at costing us goals as Sa is ;)
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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Man Utd, Newcastle and Palace's first are all on him. We've only played 11 games...
We shouldn't have got rid of that "blame game" thread, it was excellent.

Would have been interesting to see how many goals Rui was at fault for last season.
 

Tredman

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I hated the blame thread as its so subjective and you could go back and back and back. Unless its an obvious error, like the Rui goal which started this discussion, it doesn't really go anywhere.
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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Coady on Leicester and Villa's first

Dean for Utd (along with Marçal and Sa)
Moutinho and Marcal were more at fault than Coady for me at Leicester, and Saiss more so at Villa. (Coady was clearly at fault as well though)
 

Tony Towner

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I hated the blame thread as its so subjective and you could go back and back and back. Unless its an obvious error, like the Rui goal which started this discussion, it doesn't really go anywhere.
You can see that in Deutch's Sa comments around Palace and Newcastle. There is a culpability there, but he's not on his own for either and for Newcastle not the primary issue imo
 

Lincs_Wolf

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Moutinho and Marcal were more at fault than Coady for me at Leicester, and Saiss more so at Villa. (Coady was clearly at fault as well though)

A goal wasn't guaranteed when Moutinho and Marcal/Saiss did nothing v Leicester and Villa but Coadys flatfootedness cost us a goal on both occasions and let players with the quality of Ings and Vardy get a yard on him.
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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A goal wasn't guaranteed when Moutinho and Marcal/Saiss did nothing v Leicester and Villa but Coadys flatfootedness cost us a goal on both occasions and let players with the quality of Ings and Vardy get a yard on him.
I just think Saiss and Moutinho/Marcal had easier tasks to prevent the goal, (just foul McGinn, or don't get too close in Saiss's case), (just foul Ricardo, block him, don't commit in Mout/Marcal's case) than Coady did, who had to read and adjust to the run of Vardy and Ings and also predict exactly where Ricardo and McGinn were going to cross.

In both instances, Coady was in a decent position as the ball was crossed, but the crosses were played in that really hard to defend area between the 6 yard box and penalty spot, which was behind Coady, and as Vardy and Ings were attacking the ball in front of them, they were always favourite.

On the Ings goal too, i'm not sure where Marcal was? Shouldn't he have been on McGinn and Saiss at the near post? Also where was Saiss for the Vardy goal? I'd have to watch it again on the latter.
 

Jinky

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I hated the blame thread as its so subjective and you could go back and back and back. Unless its an obvious error, like the Rui goal which started this discussion, it doesn't really go anywhere.
and people let their preconceived opinions of certain players get in the way of what actually happened. It was often a pointless discussion because there's no changing some people's minds.
 

Johnny75

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I just think Saiss and Moutinho/Marcal had easier tasks to prevent the goal, (just foul McGinn, or don't get too close in Saiss's case), (just foul Ricardo, block him, don't commit in Mout/Marcal's case) than Coady did, who had to read and adjust to the run of Vardy and Ings and also predict exactly where Ricardo and McGinn were going to cross.

In both instances, Coady was in a decent position as the ball was crossed, but the crosses were played in that really hard to defend area between the 6 yard box and penalty spot, which was behind Coady, and as Vardy and Ings were attacking the ball in front of them, they were always favourite.

On the Ings goal too, i'm not sure where Marcal was? Shouldn't he have been on McGinn and Saiss at the near post? Also where was Saiss for the Vardy goal? I'd have to watch it again on the latter.
Coady was in a poor position for both Leicester and Villa.

He wasn't on his toes so couldn't move towards the ball on the deck or in the air, he was square to the ball not on the 45 degree angle to increase his vision and agility, this means he'd have seen the runs earlier and could react quicker. And he was inside the post instead of outside which meant Vardy and Ings had direct runs on goal.

Technical bits I know.

Saiss was too tight for the Villa goal as was Marçal for Leicester, this was clearly tactical and could be laid at the door of the manager.
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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He wasn't on his toes so couldn't move towards the ball on the deck or in the air, he was square to the ball not on the 45 degree angle to increase his vision and agility, this means he'd have seen the runs earlier and could react quicker. And he was inside the post instead of outside which meant Vardy and Ings had direct runs on goal.

Technical bits I know.
I do agree, not saying he wasn't at fault, he was, just felt the prior crosses were easier to solve, i'm sure you're right about them being told to get tight, especially to McGinn, but getting tight is exactly the worst thing you can do to McGinn, he uses his arse so well.
 
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