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January 2022 Transfer Thread

Alan

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If Moutinho needed a rest and Nuno still preferred him to Vitinha, that's not exactly a resounding endorsement for the junior midfielder, is it?

Of course, you could make the same argument re: Fabio Silva and Willian Jose... And I'd probably have to concede the point. Fabio not beating out Willian last season does not speak well of his ability.
 

Johnny75

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Fans may have done but how many of us have hours and hours of footage of him, along with analysis, knowledge of his personality. Players don't go from useless to quality in 6 months, even the example you've given is more to do with increased playing time than huge personal improvements.
I don't go along with this. I think Kilman's improvement is down to this new regime.

He's always had the skills, he's added to this positioning and defending. Add to that his new found aerial ability too and I think you have to give the new team credit here.

In fairness, this happens a lot when managers change so it's not a new phenomenon.
 

WsWolf

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If Moutinho needed a rest and Nuno still preferred him to Vitinha, that's not exactly a resounding endorsement for the junior midfielder, is it?

Of course, you could make the same argument re: Fabio Silva and Willian Jose... And I'd probably have to concede the point. Fabio not beating out Willian last season does not speak well of his ability.

Its quite damning of Nuno actually. As we've seen him absolutely run games against Premier League quality partnerships for his country. Unless he just forgets how to play football when not in that kit like some kind of reverse Clarke Kent.

Then again, no one knows and it can be framed to fit your agenda, like most things.
 

Alan

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Its quite damning of Nuno actually. As we've seen him absolutely run games against Premier League quality partnerships for his country. Unless he just forgets how to play football when not in that kit like some kind of reverse Clarke Kent.
Your point is made! I would tend to put the onus on the player, but can respect and logically follow your feeling that it may lie at the feet of the manager.

I would point out that some players are vastly better for their country than their club, but there's too much variance there for me to want to die on that hill.
 

PuntsWolf

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We still had the option to sign Vitinha when Bruno was here. He obviously didn’t want him (whereas he did want RAN).

Not sure he ever played “well”. He went from neat and tidy to anonymous.

Not saying he’s a bad player, but I don’t think he could do what Neves and Moutinho do in our 3-4-3 and he’s not a #10. So I don’t think he suited us and we don’t really need to be wasting more money on kids who won’t play at this moment.
 

Alan

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At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that if we end up buying him in one of the next few windows for more than 15m, we've done something incredibly stupid.
 

Tony Towner

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We still had the option to sign Vitinha when Bruno was here. He obviously didn’t want him (whereas he did want RAN).

Not sure he ever played “well”. He went from neat and tidy to anonymous.

Not saying he’s a bad player, but I don’t think he could do what Neves and Moutinho do in our 3-4-3 and he’s not a #10. So I don’t think he suited us and we don’t really need to be wasting more money on kids who won’t play at this moment.
He had one very good game, which looked like a breakthrough, Albion from memory. Then didn't do much in his starts afterwards
 

WsWolf

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We still had the option to sign Vitinha when Bruno was here. He obviously didn’t want him (whereas he did want RAN).

Not sure he ever played “well”. He went from neat and tidy to anonymous.

Not saying he’s a bad player, but I don’t think he could do what Neves and Moutinho do in our 3-4-3 and he’s not a #10. So I don’t think he suited us and we don’t really need to be wasting more money on kids who won’t play at this moment.

He could 100% do what they are doing now imo. He'd also benefit from the increased movement and interplay. I'm not sure if we did have the option to sign Vitinha still, the RAN option had run out and we actually negotiated a cheaper fee which is possibly what we tried to do to Porto. I've no idea if Bruno wanted him or not.
 

PuntsWolf

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He had one very good game, which looked like a breakthrough, Albion from memory. Then didn't do much in his starts afterwards
Vaguely remember it. United away he was near and tidy whilst also being anonymous, then was more anonymous at Brighton which was dissapointing.

Spurs away he many as well not have been on the pitch.

He may have been decent in those other two games but certainly not enough to stand out in my brain.

I think when we didn’t sign him the plan was to get someone else. Obviously we didn’t. However if we didn’t think he suited and didn’t want him then we shouldn’t suddenly want him just because we didn’t get the other players.
 

PuntsWolf

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He could 100% do what they are doing now imo. He'd also benefit from the increased movement and interplay. I'm not sure if we did have the option to sign Vitinha still, the RAN option had run out and we actually negotiated a cheaper fee which is possibly what we tried to do to Porto. I've no idea if Bruno wanted him or not.
In your opinion. I don’t think he could in mine. Lightweight and didnt have the defensive nouse IMO.

Lage was basically the manager in May. It was probably done before the United game. If he wanted him we’d have kept him.

Much like RAN, Vitinha hadn’t pulled up any trees. So we probably couldn’t justify the outlay. RAN isn’t actually any cheaper. Cheaper payment with a big sell on (he hadn’t justified £20m at the time) but now we have the option to buy out the sell on, probably at the fee that brings it up to the original deal.
 

Tony Towner

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The reality is even if we'd signed him he would have spent most of the season taking Cundle's place on the bench and played about as many minutes.

Longer term he'd have been the give Moutinho a break/replace him when he retires guy. He wouldn't have changed the way we play. I can't say whether I would have signed him without knowing the real budget.
 

Paul

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Not sure he ever played “well”. He went from neat and tidy to anonymous.
To be fair he always seemed to want to play the ball forwards, which at the time was revolutionary :) So people would think he was better than he was.
 

Del Woppio

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Vitinha, in a footballing team, is a wonderful talent. He'll go far, and I'm absolutely staggered we didn't buy him for the £15m or so quoted. That's fuck all, especially when you've got three midfielders and plenty of money to spend.
 

WolfMan

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In your opinion. I don’t think he could in mine. Lightweight and didnt have the defensive nouse IMO.

Lage was basically the manager in May. It was probably done before the United game. If he wanted him we’d have kept him.

Much like RAN, Vitinha hadn’t pulled up any trees. So we probably couldn’t justify the outlay. RAN isn’t actually any cheaper. Cheaper payment with a big sell on (he hadn’t justified £20m at the time) but now we have the option to buy out the sell on, probably at the fee that brings it up to the original deal.
He might have thought he had a chance of getting Sanches as well, which definitely wouldn't have happened if we'd signed Vitinha.
 

WolfMan

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Theoretically if we were to end up signing Sanches in January, I'd be more happy than if we'd signed Vitinha in August.
 

YoungWolf

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I would have signed him and much agree with Del's assessment but also take Punts points tbf
 

Wilf Wolf

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Fans may have done but how many of us have hours and hours of footage of him, along with analysis, knowledge of his personality. Players don't go from useless to quality in 6 months, even the example you've given is more to do with increased playing time than huge personal improvements.
More playing time? Isn’t that exactly what Vitinha has had? If it’s good enough for Kilman it’s good enough for Vitinha.
 

WsWolf

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Just more of a chance to show the ability they already had imo. Obviously there is some improvement in Kilman which can be attributed to the coaching as some stuff has been night an day from before but for Vitinha he's not really going anything different to whenever I've seen him, just that he's playing regularly with players who move to receive the ball in a cohesive unit. Which we didn't really have last year.
 

Wilf Wolf

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Just more of a chance to show the ability they already had imo. Obviously there is some improvement in Kilman which can be attributed to the coaching as some stuff has been night an day from before but for Vitinha he's not really going anything different to whenever I've seen him, just that he's playing regularly with players who move to receive the ball in a cohesive unit. Which we didn't really have last year.
I really don’t see much difference. Both are playing more and under different coaches., but you can’t accept Vitinha might be worth more, yet Kilman clearly is.
 
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