Let's talk about Nuno....

[PuntsWolf]

Common sense tells be it would be pretty bloody hard. Ironically, people’s reluctance to name names because it’s ‘not their job to know about this stuff’ hasn’t convinced me to think differently. Funny that.

So why can every other team do it?

 

[Haggstone]

You say don't start with victim stuff but you still rely on the crutch of blaming forum members much more readily than the club employees who actually make these calls

Didn’t realise I was apportioning blame to anyone? Simply pointing out the flawed logic of claiming to know the difficulty of a task while demonstrating limited aptitude to undertake said task, and then wondering why people don’t take your word for it.

 

[Haggstone]

So why can every other team do it?

What do you mean every other team?

 

[prawnking]

Didn’t realise I was apportioning blame to anyone? Simply pointing out the flawed logic of claiming to the know the difficulty of a task while demonstrating limited aptitude to undertake said task, and then wondering why people don’t take your word for it.

That's just nonsense designed to stifle criticism. I guarantee everyone on this board has labelled a professional footballer as 'shit' who is at least ten times the player they are.

We're fans, not sports professionals.

 

[Tony Towner]

You say don't start with victim stuff but you still rely on the crutch of blaming forum members much more readily than the club employees who actually make these calls

It's just a wanky line. On here there will be a few that genuinely knew our players before we signed them, a few who pretend they did, but the majority didn't know most of them. Ignoring kids that have come through the Development Squad at the point we were linked with them or signed them I knew Rui, Moutinho, Ruddy, Adama and Coady well, knew Semedo and Hoever less well and had heard of Donck and Neves but knew very little about them. Which leaves Boly, Saiss, RAN, Vitinha, Raul, Fabio, Jonny, Marcal, Podence and Neto I'd never heard of which you can add former players like Costa, Cav and Jota to.

As I freely admit to and believe I'm in the majority in not knowing more than half our players before we signed them, then it's reasonable to suggest I wouldn't know who the scouting team would suggest.

Mr badly informed on a forum can't name anyone other than Josh King therefore they don't exist is a piss weak argument

 

[Haggstone]

That's just nonsense designed to stifle criticism. I guarantee everyone on this board has labelled a professional footballer as 'shit' who is at least ten times the player they are.

We're fans, not sports professionals.

I was never a particularly good football player, that doesn’t mean to say that I cant tell if a player is any good or not based on the evidence in front of me. I’m still in a position to apply reasonable judgement based on my 30 odd years of watching it.

I fail to see any similarity what so ever.

 

[Haggstone]

It's just a wanky line. On here there will be a few that genuinely knew our players before we signed them, a few who pretend they did, but the majority didn't know most of them. Ignoring kids that have come through the Development Squad at the point we were linked with them or signed them I knew Rui, Moutinho, Ruddy, Adama and Coady well, knew Semedo and Hoever less well and had heard of Donck and Neves but knew very little about them. Which leaves Boly, Saiss, RAN, Vitinha, Raul, Fabio, Jonny, Marcal, Podence and Neto I'd never heard of which you can add former players like Costa, Cav and Jota to.

As I freely admit to and believe I'm in the majority in not knowing more than half our players before we signed them, then it's reasonable to suggest I wouldn't know who the scouting team would suggest.

Mr badly informed on a forum can't name anyone other than Josh King therefore they don't exist is a piss weak argument

Failure to name names isn’t the only argument put forward though. I can assure you, I don’t arrive at my my opinions solely based on the knowledge, or lack of knowledge of people on this forum.

 

[AndyWolves]

It's easy to say we should have signed a back up striker - there, I just did!

We have a very narrow set of parameters to fill which makes it a very difficult position to fill. Hence, why I think we went for a different approach.

We've never kept players around to keep the numbers up so I can understand the reluctance to sign a player who would fall into that category. It is however, a weakness.

 

[Haggstone]

It's easy to say we should have signed a back up striker - there, I just did!

We have a very narrow set of parameters to fill which makes it a very difficult position to fill. Hence, why I think we went for a different approach.

We've never kept players around to keep the numbers up so I can understand the reluctance to sign a player who would fall into that category. It is however, a weakness.

See this is fair enough, yes I would have liked us to have had a more able back up, in fact fuck it, I actually would have liked us to sign better than him. I just don’t think it’s an easy thing to do, far from it.

 

[prawnking]

I was never a particularly good football player, that doesn’t mean to say that I cant tell if a player is any good or not based on the evidence in front of me. I’m still in a position to apply judgement based on my 30 odd years of watching it.

I fail to see any similarity what so ever.

But how can you the criticise the player (performing the task of playing) if you can't perform the task yourself?

And how does reeling off a list of players prove anything anyway? When we don't know their demands, personalities, whether they fit the managers profile etc. or more importantly, how they play.

If you like to throw names around, great. Doesn't make you forum messiah, or on anywhere the same level as our profession recruitment team

 

[AndyWolves]

We signed Cutrone for the exact role of Rauls understudy so it's not like the club haven't tried

 

[prawnking]

See this is fair enough, yes I would have liked us to have had a more able back up, in fact fuck it, I actually would have liked us to sign better than him. I just don’t think it’s an easy thing to do, far from it.

Who is saying it's easy? If we can't criticise things that are hard then it'd be a pretty barren forum. I imagine it was incredibly difficult to get a team like us promoted and stay up, doesn't mean we can't talk about things we could have done better, or highlight flaws or blind spots

 

[Paul]

I do think people forget this a just a fans forum here to promote opinions and conversations, it doesn't mean anything, we don't make any decisions, we don't have any say in anything, there's nothing funnier than "we should buy player x", "Yeh that's a great shout", "Why haven't we brought player X", "Obviously a catastrophic balls up we never tried hard enough to buy player X"
Yes the assumption we haven't even tried to buy anyone without any knowledge of what the club has tried to do, no players in = nothing done. Everyone knows the trials and tribulation of buying or selling a house but consider it easy to buy the correct human being at a hundred times the price of a house

 

[PuntsWolf]

What do you mean every other team?

Every other team in the league has players who can replace the first choice if they were to get injured to some degree.

Like every team has a backup GK (who is less likely to be needed than a forward). If it were impossible or a waste of resources, or whatever, teams would just have the 18 yr old as backup rather than pay for and continue to pay someone else. They may well be “shit” but they are by definition better than the U18 otherwise you wouldn’t have signed them!

 

[prawnking]

I do think people forget this a just a fans forum here to promote opinions and conversations, it doesn't mean anything, we don't make any decisions, we don't have any say in anything, there's nothing funnier than "we should buy player x", "Yeh that's a great shout", "Why haven't we brought player X", "Obviously a catastrophic balls up we never tried hard enough to buy player X"
Yes the assumption we haven't even tried to buy anyone without any knowledge of what the club has tried to do, no players in = nothing done. Everyone knows the trials and tribulation of buying or selling a house but consider it easy to buy the correct human being at a hundred times the price of a house

Your assumption is worth no more or less than anyone else's on here though. Or do you have knowledge of what the club has or hasn't tried to do?

As far as I can see, the discussion has been around the virtues of what the club did do. It's less 'they didn't try' than 'they put all their eggs in the wrong basket (for now).

Where has all this talk about things being 'easy' come from? You can use that to shut down any discussion. It's not easy being a PL manager so Nuno is a no-go area?

 

[Trips]

Every other team in the league has players who can replace the first choice if they were to get injured to some degree.

Like every team has a backup GK (who is less likely to be needed than a forward). If it were impossible or a waste of resources, or whatever, teams would just have the 18 yr old as backup rather than pay for and continue to pay someone else. They may well be “shit” but they are by definition better than the U18 otherwise you wouldn’t have signed them!

Your argument falls down when the team we played last night had the completely ineffectual James and Gylfi up front. Both offered about the same as Silva last night

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

Was worried this thread was going to be entirely negative, but it seems mostly constructive. Nuno is not perfect, nobody is. He has achieved much more than we dared to hope for 3 1/2 years ago, and he has done it by sticking to a cautious, conservative approach throughout games.
Now he recognises the need to change style. A couple of weeks ago I could not understand how he could chop and change the team so much, in the middle of the season, with no apparent idea of what his end goal would look like. Now I see it differently. Perhaps he is not trying to change Wolves style, but rather to improve his own ideas. And at times that means trying different options, and making mistakes along the way. Especially when one approach is so ingrained.
Injuries have not helped, and having so many younger players complicates things, but this season is definitely the right time to change. Nuno has seen the limitations of 343/352 and feels we have come as far as we can with that (his) style. We will not be relegated so why not take as long as necessary to find the right team and to see what does and does not work.
"If" we come out of this a better and stronger team, and over the next few seasons get closer to regular European football, then I don't care how much Nuno screws up this season.

 

[Haggstone]

But how can you the criticise the player (performing the task of playing) if you can't perform the task yourself?

And how does reeling off a list of players prove anything anyway? When we don't know their demands, personalities, whether they fit the managers profile etc. or more importantly, how they play.

If you like to throw names around, great. Doesn't make you forum messiah, or on anywhere the same level as our profession recruitment team

Because I’m able compare the ability of the player with other players based on my experience of watching the sport.

Reeling off a list of suitable and attainable players might convince me that the task of recruiting a back up to Raul is perhaps easier than I’d first assumed and that the recruitment teams aren’t doing a good enough job. Failure to names names simply leaves me with no where to go but to stick with my original assumptions.

To be clear, I don’t think it hard to find a back up to Raul just because some chump off the internet can’t name names. That would be silly. There’s a whole host of reasons I think that way, all of which have been discussed many times before.

 

[Paul]

Your assumption is worth no more or less than anyone else's on here though. Or do you have knowledge of what the club has or hasn't tried to do?

As far as I can see, the discussion has been around the virtues of what the club did do. It's less 'they didn't try' than 'they put all their eggs in the wrong basket (for now).

Where has all this talk about things being 'easy' come from? You can use that to shut down any discussion. It's not easy being a PL manager so Nuno is a no-go area?

My, we are in a mood today . I'm leaving this until you've had some warm milk and calmed down a bit.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

That's just nonsense designed to stifle criticism. I guarantee everyone on this board has labelled a professional footballer as 'shit' who is at least ten times the player they are.

We're fans, not sports professionals.

In my own mind I was the best goalkeeper Ireland never had