Pre-Season Fixture thread (22/23)

[GoldFlagFlyingHigh]

Just realised I may have posted that in the wrong thread. Apologies. Feel free to move it to a more suitable one

 

[PuntsWolf]

Good luck in transition would be my take on the Chiquinho plan

He was the furthest man forward against City, and yes they are the best team in the league but it was a total disaster.

If you’re going to play a 343 in such a way, you may as well just commit to a 4231. At least then everyone knows their roles and it’s balanced not leaving gaping holes where players don’t know whether their coming or going

In select scenarios chasing a game or against someone parking the bus then fine (may as well just be 4231 though…), but he’s not going to be effective trying to play two roles as he’s going to be blowing out his arse doing neither job well.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Sounds wank.

 

[Wolfmania]

Wonder who he earmarks to play as the RCB as they’ll need to be pretty mobile and comfortable on the ball to cover Chinquinho. Can’t imagine Toti or Mosquera would be at the necessary level yet so surely that requires a key signing to be made.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Wonder who he earmarks to play as the RCB as they’ll need to be pretty mobile and comfortable on the ball to cover Chinquinho. Can’t imagine Toti or Mosquera would be at the necessary level yet so surely that requires a key signing to be made.

Jonny would be the best option in the current squad I think but him and Coady as 2/3 of the back line doesn't scream serial security. Anyone else will be a complete waste of time in possession though.

The whole idea is a joke.

 

[Tony Towner]

It's not really different to was expected of Semedo. The differences are Semedo is quick and fit and got up and down and is a natural defender so sees the danger. You'd be swapping more defensive stability for potentially more effectiveness offensively whilst this version of Willy chugs after the oppositions left winger/forward. We'd score more goals as long as we got men in the box but defensively good god

 

[Boozad]

I know I'm not the brightest (and I'm not doubting the info for a second) but how does a 343 transition into a 4231? A CB pushes into midfield to partner Neves or Moutinho while the other moves into the 10 role? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me but I'm not a football manager so what do I know?

EDIT: Oh hang on, so if Chiquinho pushes forward (where he should be anyway in my worthless opinion) RAN drops to left back and the three CBs all move over? That sounds even worse.

 

[Tony Towner]

I know I'm not the brightest (and I'm not doubting the info for a second) but how does a 343 transition into a 4231? A CB pushes into midfield to partner Neves or Moutinho while the other moves into the 10 role? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me but I'm not a football manager so what do I know?

EDIT: Oh hang on, so if Chiquinho pushes forward (where he should be anyway in my worthless opinion) RAN drops to left back and the three CBs all move over? That sounds even worse.

You have what happened towards the end of last season in the Brighton(?) game when Jonny played higher up and your right sided centre half becomes full back

 

[Tony Towner]

Killed by the edit

 

[Boozad]

You have what happened towards the end of last season in the Brighton(?) game when Jonny played higher up and your right sided centre half becomes full back

Exactly. How bad was that?

 

[Johnny75]

I really hope that isn't the plan as it will fail spectacularly.

You just can't transition like that and not be lopsided. We tried the same shit with Adama and it sounds like another batshit idea from some stats prick that will never work.

The CB's end up as full backs to cover the space over Chiquinho/ RAN and none of them are blessed with any sort of pace to do that.

It will also expose Coady on the counter, completely isolating him.

Just fuck off with this shit and play in a formation that suits the players or manager and change accordingly.

It has disaster written all over it.

The staff need leadership, this shit is embarrassing from all concerned.

 

[Tony Towner]

As I said it's not that different to what Semedo does, but he can get back, had smart midfielders who could cover and Kilman to be fair to him being aggressive to fill the space. Chiquinho has the pace, but teaching him to be a defender in a pre season is a challenge. It's effectively what Spurs did under Mourinho when Aurier played more or less right winger and Davies moved from LB to CH. Then they signed Doherty and weirdly stopped doing it.
Just play 4231 and commit to it

 

[Johnny75]

As I said it's not that different to what Semedo does, but he can get back, had smart midfielders who could cover and Saiss to be fair to him being aggressive to fill the space. Chiquinho has the pace, but teaching him to be a defender in a pre season is a challenge. It's effectively what Spurs did under Mourinho when Aurier played more or less right winger and Davies moved from LB to CH. Then they signed Dohertynand weirdly stopped doing it.
Just play 4231 and commit to it

Didn't work for Mourinho either as he had to rely on Kane.

We don't have Kane.

Conte saw that nonsense for what it was and decided to have a proper 3-4-3 instead.

On Semedo, he's not offensive enough to turn into a wide forward. Doesn't have the brain or ability to beat players or drag defenders of of position.

It's such a terrible idea destined to fail.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I know I'm not the brightest (and I'm not doubting the info for a second) but how does a 343 transition into a 4231? A CB pushes into midfield to partner Neves or Moutinho while the other moves into the 10 role? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me but I'm not a football manager so what do I know?

EDIT: Oh hang on, so if Chiquinho pushes forward (where he should be anyway in my worthless opinion) RAN drops to left back and the three CBs all move over? That sounds even worse.

343 to 433 could work like that, sweeper becomes DM, but trying to go 4231 from 343 is no simple transition, too many moving parts. Attempting to do so with some squiffy asymmetrical bullshit is frankly laughable.

 

[Tony Towner]

Didn't work for Mourinho either as he had to rely on Kane.

We don't have Kane.

Conte saw that nonsense for what it was and decided to have a proper 3-4-3 instead.

On Semedo, he's not offensive enough to turn into a wide forward. Doesn't have the brain or ability to beat players or drag defenders of of position.

It's such a terrible idea destined to fail.

Agreed, but in some level of Bruno defence it feels like you've got the same group of players again so do something different with them. He's not stupid, he knows rolling it back won't score more goals and presumably still won't trust anyone in a 4. On the last point, I don't think I do, but I'd be trying that before what's suggested above

 

[Boozad]

343 to 433 could work like that, sweeper becomes DM, but trying to go 4231 from 343 is no simple transition, too many moving parts. Attempting to do so with some squiffy asymmetrical bullshit is frankly laughable.

That would work if your wing backs drop to regular full backs definitely, if one of your CBs was adept at playing CDM. That's a pretty natural transition. Moving a WB to a wide man and having three CBs form three quarters of a back four is just ludicrous, I fail to see how any professional involved in football would think that would work. Especially when your defenders are far from world class.

 

[Johnny75]

That would work if your wing backs drop to regular full backs definitely, if one of your CBs was adept at playing CDM. That's a pretty natural transition. Moving a WB to a wide man and having three CBs form three quarters of a back four is just ludicrous, I fail to see how any professional involved in football would think that would work. Especially when your defenders are far from world class.

What you describe is essentially how Liverpool play only they start as 4-3-3 and if in trouble drop Fabinho into that CB slot. Pep did the same with Fernandhino.

We have Donk who could do that but nobody to make into that attacking midfielder role and only Neto who can cross from wide and no midfielder who can attack from deep anyway.

It's all so fucking ludicrous.

 

[Boozad]

What you describe is essentially how Liverpool play only they start as 4-3-3 and if in trouble drop Fabinho into that CB slot. Pep did the same with Fernandhino.

We have Donk who could do that but nobody to make into that attacking midfielder role and only Neto who can cross from wide and no midfielder who can attack from deep anyway.

It's all so fucking ludicrous.

Bang on. The closest we have is Neves really, his passing could split a line or he could have a pop from range if the chance presented itself but he's never going to take a man on. The trouble with all that is you need to play with some intent and be able to gain territory on a regular basis for it to be even remotely effective. We don't / can't / won't do that so it's all futile. As TT said the best way forward would be to commit to the formation change (4231) and buy some fucking players who fit it.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It's such nonsense.

Even if you lived in a fairytale world where you've got a group of players ideally suited to this lopsided bullshit, what happens when you come against a side where their left hand is their strongest area and/or their right hand side is the weak vulnerability? You've skewed your side massively to make the most out of something down one side of the pitch, how do you make it do something completely different?

 

[Kenny]

and buy some fucking players

Pop that in a fax to Jeff please