Technology and Football

[Aikiwolf]

It should be about entertainment, but if you're relying on an officiating mistake to provide entertainment then surely that's a shocking verdict on the match you've been watching?

In a perfect world the officials peformance should be all but irrelevant in that respect, they should be there merely to enable the game itself to provide the entertainment rather than provide it themselves.

I wouldn't say relying on a mistake from the officials, rather that the mistakes add a level of depth and increase the potential entertainment value. Though in the case of the game I referenced earlier a shocking mistake would have vastly improved the game (heck anything other than the ball being miscontrolled in midfield would have improved that game!).

I think it's a bit odd to see refs as some external body to the game, they are intrinsically interlinked with how football is played.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I wouldn't say relying on a mistake from the officials, rather that the mistakes add a level of depth and increase the potential entertainment value. Though in the case of the game I referenced earlier a shocking mistake would have vastly improved the game (heck anything other than the ball being miscontrolled in midfield would have improved that game!).

I think it's a bit odd to see refs as some external body to the game, they are intrinsically interlinked with how football is played.

That last sentence is bizarre!

They should have no bearing on how the game is played at all, they may disrupt the flow of a game but surely in anyone's mind that's a sign of a poor refereeing performance? A good refereeing performance should go pretty much unnoticed, let the teams get on with doing their thing and providing the entertainment, the officials should always be looking to have as little impact on the game as possible in my eyes.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Let's say for example that our left back is an absolute pile of shite (it's fanciful talk I know, but just imagine if that were the case). We can, if we want, drop him, buy a new one, play a kid from the Academy, loads of options available to us in theory to fix that issue.

If we get Mark Halsey on a special day then we can't do anything about that.

 

[Aikiwolf]

A ref will always impact a game, he's the guy in the middle enforcing the rules. In reality, a quiet refereeing performance is often because there have been no debatable decisions to make.

I'm not advocating those refs who seem to think the game is about them (I'm looking at you Mike Dean!) I'm just saying a referee is part of the football fabric, they are not a competely external adjudicator.

Fwiw I once had a conversation with Kevin Friend, who was very pro technology.

 

[The Bear]

The more technology takes the interpretation or key decisions away from referees, the less likely their personal, shall we say, nuances, can affect the result of the game.

 

[Aikiwolf]

The more technology takes the interpretation or key decisions away from referees, the less likely their personal, shall we say, nuances, can affect the result of the game.

And what benefit does that bring to the spectacle of a game?

 

[Johnny75]

I purposefully avoided chatting about Wolves decisions - we should always have them given in our favour ��

I appreciate the decision can change, the point was that the tech means that there is reduced scope for excitement. Which is what football is about imv.

But it doesn't and tech does improve the game as proved in rugby, cricket, tennis and American football. And if the game is dull then that has more to do with the manager's than it does with a shit refereeing decision.

If the referee had replay for the Newcastle game he could've asked the 4th official if he could see anything so that he couldn't award the goal. It is still the 4th official's interpretation of the law so you still get your subjectivity only with actual facts involved.

Another situation, Costa is running down the wing and gets deliberately elbowed in the face but the officials are unsure whether it was deliberate or not. When the ball goes out of play the ref could ask the 4th official if it was or not. Again you still get your subjective decision, the crowd would be active and the decision could be analysed to death in the studio. What you would have though is a definitive decision that the ref does not have to explain at the end of the game. You still get the same excitement wouldn't you?

 

[The Bear]

The spectacle of the game needs to take care of itself as Mark says. I don't want games ruined by unfair or just plain wrong decisions.

 

[Aikiwolf]

Why do decisions ruin the game? Maybe they should be seen as a contributing factor to the game as it plays out?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Injustice isn't a feature of football, or at least it shouldn't be.

If we're due a penalty as we were at Villa then I want us to have that penalty, not to have a talking point in the pub later. Although for me it does come down to better refereeing in the first place being the issue, there are way too many appalling officials around.

 

[Aikiwolf]

But it doesn't and tech does improve the game as proved in rugby, cricket, tennis and American football. And if the game is dull then that has more to do with the manager's than it does with a shit refereeing decision.

If the referee had replay for the Newcastle game he could've asked the 4th official if he could see anything so that he couldn't award the goal. It is still the 4th official's interpretation of the law so you still get your subjectivity only with actual facts involved.

Another situation, Costa is running down the wing and gets deliberately elbowed in the face but the officials are unsure whether it was deliberate or not. When the ball goes out of play the ref could ask the 4th official if it was or not. Again you still get your subjective decision, the crowd would be active and the decision could be analysed to death in the studio. What you would have though is a definitive decision that the ref does not have to explain at the end of the game. You still get the same excitement wouldn't you?

Reviewing a situation like an elbow is actually a place where video tech could be used successfully. There wouldn't be a pause in play (as the ball has gone out) and the 4th official is likely to have had time to review it.

My initial standpoint was a little hardline to stimulate some debate ;0)

 

[Aikiwolf]

Injustice isn't a feature of football, or at least it shouldn't be.

If we're due a penalty as we were at Villa then I want us to have that penalty, not to have a talking point in the pub later. Although for me it does come down to better refereeing in the first place being the issue, there are way too many appalling officials around.

I think injustice when it comes to your own team is very difficult to agree with (hence me avoiding using Wolves situations as an example). Though when it's part of a game you watch as a neutral I think it adds something.

 

[nimrod]

as prev stated i can't think of a good reason not to use technology when available to help refs get to the right decision. i agree with what johnny has said about a video ref being available to review incidents.

as well as goal line technology I think it could and should be used for other incidents but there would need to be a framework as officiating behaviour might change as a result. for instance, if a ref can check a penalty incident to see if it should be given he might be more inclined to blow when players go over knowing a vid ref makes the decision for him. similarly, if a lino knows a borderline offside that results in a goal can be checked late for offside if a goal is scored, he might be more inclined to keep a flag down. though this might be a good thing.

any use should be at the direction of the ref, i don't agree with teams having the choice to check.

i don't have a problem with lower league teams not having as much access. not sure why that should stand in the way of improving decisions elsewhere.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I'm yet to be persuaded that there is a case that video technology can improve football, though there could be an argument that the technology can improve individual decisions.

How do correct decisions make the game more enjoyable?

 

[nimrod]

I'm yet to be persuaded that there is a case that video technology can improve football, though there could be an argument that the technology can improve individual decisions.

How do correct decisions make the game more enjoyable?

that hasn't really proved to be a problem in tennis, rugby, cricket. but for me it's not simply about enjoyment, i think it would also be an acknowledgement that the game is played at a much faster pace so is more difficult to referee, and at the top level there is a huge amount now at stake monetarily. so there's a fairness and credibility issue as well. bad decisions also typically get highlighted and so to some degree undermine referees.

 

[Parkins left foot]

Would have severe reservations in giving teams/Managers a right of a number of referrals - natural bias comes into play even if they know that they will lose further referrals.

Less of an issue for me in allowing the Ref to ask for support on individual decisions, but only where the ball has gone dead - i.e. is there any reason why I cannot award that goal if he is not sure whether there has been a foul to allow the goal or a tight offside. Would have thought that a trial in say the league cup would not be unworthwhile.

The argument that this won't go down throughout the game is not relevant as it doesn't in say Rugby or Cricket anyway without it being seen as an issue.

 

[lemonjelly]

I don't see how giving the referee high quality tools to improve their ability to fulfil their roles more effectively than they do now can be in any way a detraction from the quality of the game in question.

Having whatever form of tech is appropriate and available would result in increased confidence in the quality of the referee's decision making for players, managers, spectators, the press, and the referee themselves. Thus, there would be less injustice, less challenges/confrontations with referees, and more focus on the actual game as a whole, other than a focal point which n real time lasted seconds. The game is about so much more than those individual moments.

I have no doubt you'd find something to talk about after each game. Not like you're a shrinking violet :icon_wink: What you would talk about would be different.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I feel the fluency and lack of breaks on football makes video replays difficult to incorporate into the game. Pausing to wait for a video replay decision lessens the impact.

I don't watch enough Rugby to know if there has been a level of improvement in the game since the introduction of video technology. Cricket has clearly improved but the differential here is the pace of the game. Cricket is a slow and methodical game and the introduction of video replays fits into the natural nuance of the game. As for tennis, I think it's bad a negligible impact tbh.

Nimrod's point about credibility and supporting refs is something I can't argue against (shame!) It's a definite tick in the box for vid replays. Also, that's what Kevin Friend was talking about - but it is a view focused on the ref rather than necessarily improving the game...

As an alternative to video replays, how about someone (video linesman/video referee's assistant?) viewing the game in real time through video, giving greater visibility of the park and allowing an additional view to the game. No delays for replays, no giving managers the option to challenge and no pauses whilst the ref is watching a replay to decide he can't tell and therefore it's a drop ball!

As for goal line technology it is more fair, but I feel it detracts from the theatre of the game.

 

[Aikiwolf]

https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/953379320440881152

Seeing as VAR is now in use, how exciting is this.....

Correct decision though

 

[Penk Wolf]

https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/953379320440881152

Seeing as VAR is now in use, how exciting is this.....

Correct decision though

100% agree that it should be used for decisions like this and our goal at the weekend.