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The NFL Thread

Cam Newton- I'm so glad the Panthers took him before the Bills had the chance to draft the guy. He has 'bust' written all over him. Came from a one read and run offense, he has no clue how to mentally dissect the complex NFL defences that'll be thrown at him. He has some great physical attributes, but mentally I don't think he'll make the grade. And it meant the Bills could draft Marcel Dareus, one of the best defensive prospects in years. Happy times...

I'm with you. I really, really wanted the cats to take Dareus, myself. Need a replacement for Peppers. I'd have preferred grooming Matt Moore some more while signing a veteran like Bulger. Our O-line is one of the best in the league, at least, so hopefully that'll help Cam. I certainly want him to do well for us, but I'm pretty hesitant to buy into what he brings. :(
 
Latest news: NFL Owners have voted to accept the proposed deal. The players have not voted on whether to accept the deal as they were expected to, as the deal voted on by the owners had some things in it that were not previously agreed upon. Public anger seems firmly against the players because they are now defintively the ones holding up the return to football and training camps etc. They may vote after the weekend, but the first pre-season game (the Hall of Fame Game) has been cancelled and it looks likely that training camps at the very least are not going to start on time (many should be starting towards the end of next week).
 
Owners have agreed to open training grounds. The players don't like the deal proposed by the owners and are expected to force a revote.
 
Players are going to vote today and are expected to agree the deal. Looks like Free Agency could start tomorrow and Training Camps will begin at the end of the week. Pre-season looks likely to go ahead as planned except for the Hall of Fame game.
 
Deal agreed, players can enter team facilities Wednesday, teams can start speaking to Free Agents tomorrow and can start signing them from Saturday. They can also start signing their rookies from tomorrow. Training Camps are allowed to begin this week. First pre-season games 15 days from now.

One thing is for sure, teams with new head coaches and new rookie QBs are going to find this shortened pre-season very, very difiicult. Teams with some continuity will have an advantage, especially early in the season.
 
Panthers are going to be atrocious again after this pathetic off/pre season. :(
 
I can't see Cam Newton being ready to start the season which means the Panthers will probably start Jimmy Clausen. Who is pretty bad! Also heard that WR Steve Smith wants out of Carolina. Not good. Interestingly some strong teams are going to be hit badly by the new cap, the Ravens are already releasing a lot of veteran players and the Jets have a whole bunch who they won't be able to aford to re-sign. Which is great because I loathe the Jets with a passion. Rex Ryan= big, fat, arrogant, loud-mouthed slob.
 
As someone who understands the mere basics of the game and nothing else, would I be right to assume that pre-season is much more crucial in NFL than football? In that you have to learn all the plays of a team and the skills (or otherwise) of a QB as well as getting yourself to peak fitness?
 
As someone who understands the mere basics of the game and nothing else, would I be right to assume that pre-season is much more crucial in NFL than football? In that you have to learn all the plays of a team and the skills (or otherwise) of a QB as well as getting yourself to peak fitness?

Exactly right, Deutsch. For training camp an NFL roster will have 90 players battling for the 53 places allowed at the start of the season. Of those 90 players, probably 50+ of them are likely to be new to the team and they have to learn the playbooks for their positions etc, as well as the complex terminology of each play eg "Zero out slot jet 145 counter extra Z deep cross X run." (That's the name of one individual play, players are expected to know around 500+ plays, as well as being able to diagnose what the opposing offense or defense are doing). NFL players are not expected to need pre-season for getting fit, they pretty much are all gym rats anyway, and if they aren't they tend not to be NFL players for long.

Ordinarily, NFL teams would already have had several weeks of 'mini-camps' (called OTAs, Organised Team Activities), some for all of their players, some designed purely for their rookie signings. Having missed all of that, they basically have to fit an entire off-season's work into 6 weeks. For some teams it will have a dramatic effect, teams that are going to have continuity in terms of personnel and coaching are going to have a big, big, advantage.
 
How similar are plays from team to team? Say you've been playing as a defender (if that's the right term) for the Miami Dolphins, would it be that different if you moved to New York?
 
How similar are plays from team to team? Say you've been playing as a defender (if that's the right term) for the Miami Dolphins, would it be that different if you moved to New York?

Depends on the coach. Some run simple offenses/defenses, and others run incredibly unique and complex ones. There are of course a group of core-plays that all teams will have in their playbook, and there are several distinct types of formations. 3-4 defense, 4-3 defense, spread offense, etc. If you have someone like a Rex Ryan running your defense (New York) or Sean Peyton running your offense, you're going to have a lot to learn.

The biggest problem is learning the terminology and nuance of each team. You might have an identical formation to a previous team/coach, but depending on what the other team is doing, be expected to make different adjustments. And that's assuming you read the other team correctly. Even if 1 person messes up a read for something like a block, the play is almost certain to be over since the QB will get sacked in seconds. If you're a corner or linebacker and you blow a coverage, it could be a wide open TD pass. There's also the "type" of personnel that you specialize in. To use your example,
a linebacker that excels in coverage and chasing the ball moving from Miami will be blitzing much more often in NY (Jets). They'll have to retrain themselves to think a certain way in their position and be expected to react in a way that the scheme calls for.

A lot of kids coming from college aren't used to running books as complex as those found in the NFL, so it's the biggest set back for them. Since players study opposing teams every week before playing them, veterans are more familiar with other teams and packages to begin with.
 
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How similar are plays from team to team? Say you've been playing as a defender (if that's the right term) for the Miami Dolphins, would it be that different if you moved to New York?

Different teams run different schemes on offense and defense, but there are a lot of similarities. However, every team has it's own language for naming the different plays and they will all run plays differently to each other, even if it is almost the same. So, moving from one team to another a player will have to learn the slightly different nuances, but also the names of each and every play. I've read interviews with players who have joined the Buffalo Bills from another team and they have said it can take them a year or more to become 100% familiar with the new terminology. Most rookies take 2 years to fully understand the NFL once they are signed.

For a quarterback it is much more difficult, as they essentially not only have to know and understand their own job, but they have to know the assignments of every player on the offense. They tell the linemen who to block, the receivers where to run and they have to be able to tell what the opposing defense is trying to do. I honestly think the position of QB is the most cerebrally challenging job in the whole world of sport. They have to be mentally quick and physically able to throw the ball exactly where it needs to be, all the while having 5 or 6 16 stone men who can run 40m in under 5s trying to knock them into next week.
 
Gents :tiphat:

It's a complex game to understand for sure. As an outsider it strikes me as a game of set pieces if you like, very little open play, and obviously if you do the same thing every time you'll get sussed out, just as you would with football and taking the same corner all the time. Do they ever do anything off the cuff? Chuck the playbook away, ignore the coach and try something out of the blue?
 
That's a bad idea since the calls are being made by an experienced coach watching the game from the top of the stadium, observing everything the defense is doing. That's also a quick way to get benched and lose respect from the coach and your contract with the team. There are times when the coach will call a play out of left field and run something completely orthodox, but as far as players going "eh screw coach lets do ____", not so much. Generally when a team is outcoached it's pretty obvious, so the players don't take a lot of heat.

Having said that, there are certain players that actually run the offense entirely themselves, such as Peyton Manning.
 
Sorry for all the daft questions.

But how does the defence read what the offence is going to do?
 
Coaching tendencies, QB audible tendencies, looking at where all of the players are lined up, watching movements on the line, seeing where the RB is lined up, checking whether the TE might be used as a blocker or receiver, considering the situation (is it 1st and 10 or 3rd and 2?)....

Same for offenses reading defense. Are there extra men on the line looking to blitz? Does a corner move with a receiver during motions for man to man or are they playing zone? Are the DB's playing deep? Do they have a premier pass-rusher that switched sides or is playing more to the outside? Are their linebackers looking to be in a position for coverage or blitzing? Does anyone move during the snap count?

Lots of things go into it.
 
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I will get there eventually. :icon_lol:

Thank you for your help.
 
Honestly a lot of Americans don't really even understand the nuances of the sport. Hell, I'm probably one of them. :D It's much more complicated than it gets credit for. If you get a good announcer they will often point things out during replays that I hadn't even begun to notice.
 
Sorry for all the daft questions.

But how does the defence read what the offence is going to do?

They study a lot of film of the teams playing and learn their tendencies. So if a team runs a play out of one offensive formation based on down and distance (say it is 2nd down and 9) they can anticipate what that play might be and call a defensive play appropriately. The thing is, this is where the beauty of the game comes in IMO because smart coaches will set teams up. So for instance if it is 2nd and 9 and they typically run a certain play out of one formation, they will suddenly run a completely different play out of that formation. And they might only ever do it once. And it might be saved specifically for one opponent and the defence that they expect that opponent to run. I know Buffalo last season ran a lot of one type of play out of a certain formation, showed that same formation several times in a game against Baltimore and then on about the 5th or 6th time of using that formation ran a completely different play because the defense lined up in the way they anticipated. The play they ran went for a 45 yard touchdown. All because of the set up and the studying of film. It really is ingenious.

The NFL, for all its brutality, is a thinking man's sport.

And to add to Tech's answer to your earlier question, there are times when things break down offensively, when the defense has called everything right, where a QB might scramble around and improvise a throw because he has no other choice other than getting killed! But the great thing is teams practice that and players know what they have to do should a play break down like that! So although it is on the fly improvisation, it is still rehearsed!
 
Deutsch, I would have thought with all your vast knowledge of stats and the fact that you appear to think quite deeply about your sport, the NFL would be a perfect sport for you to get into!!
 
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