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Ukraine


In 2001, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) created the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), backed by the United Nations (UN). Their initial role was to secure Kabul, the Afghan capital. By April 2002 there were 1,700 British soldiers working alongside other NATO allies.
The invasion of Afghanistan was a response to an attack on of NATOs member countries. Unlike Iraq there was very little opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan to destroy terrorist training camps. How it was handled after the initial invasion I’ll leave to historians!
 
Because it is the right of any sovereign nation to apply to join any organisation it wishes?
But it is within the gift of that organisation to rule it out on the grounds it would destabilise an already volatile situation.
 
It's the pre-USSR Russian Empire that Putin wants to reclaim, not "recreate the USSR". It's a very important distinction.

The USSR was dominated by Russia but the Soviets were the ones that set up the republics that surrounded it like Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc. The ealy Bolsheviks were largely an alliance of separatist ethnic nationalist movements in those regions and an urban working class revolutionary movement (or "vanguard", I guess more accurately). The Tsars spent centuries trying to wipe out rebels in places like Ukraine, but the Soviets did the complete opposite - they gave them their own republics within the wider Soviet Union, legally an equal with Russia (even if in practice, as I say, it was Russia-dominated).

Putin was very explicit in his speech earlier this week that he blames Lenin for giving people like the Ukrainians what he considers to be an illegitimate right to independence. He wants to redraw the map of Eurasia, back to 1917, when they knew their place. It's also central to the whole "NATO is expanding into 'our' part of Europe" issue - clearly Russia is the aggressor here, but as far as the Russian nationalists in the Kremlin are concerned NATO has got in and claimed those countries before Russia could reabsorb them.

Ah the old historical map line, trouble is where do you draw the line (literally!)

The Rus were originally from much further south than Moscow, perhaps they can redraw to this map. Maybe they have rights to their ancestral home in Scandinavia. I'm being facetious of course but you could justify going all the way back to Lucy and the crossing into Europe if you follow this argument through to its conclusion.

Its just the same old tripe recycled from history of war mongering dictators handbook to justification for invasion. Yogoslavia and Austria was just the reunification of German speakers
 
Without wanting to sound all wishy-washy because that's not me at all but I am so fucking angry with the gun eyed fucking misfit, after all the fucking shit that the entire world has endured for 2 long years, we are now beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel and fucking Kossack Joe has start waving his dick around in an attempt at being the big tough guy and is potentially threatening the lives of millions of ordinary people in the process.

The stupid cunt is so fucking tough he is apparently too scared to go out in case he catches Covid. Even John, the 82 year old bloke next door to me has started visiting the garden centres again.

Cunt. Putin, not John
 
I didn’t think it would happen tbh, thought it’s all bluff and bluster.
The Baltic countries are worried, due to having a lot of ethnic Russians there, the northern coast of Estonia from Narva to Tallinn is majority Russian.
Lithuania has a railway going through it to Kaliningrad that is leased by Russia, putin could claim that Russian infrastructure is under threat there, send the troops in to protect it, hey presto, nato ally cut in half, 2 more isolated, and another has the Russians 20 miles from their border, he won’t though as that would seriously overstretch his forces.
There’s a strip of land between Moldova and Ukraine called Transnistra, it’s a breakaway republic after a civil war with Moldova, only Russia recognises it, it uses roubles as currency, that could be another bit of land grab after the Ukraine outing.
Then you’ve got the Caucasus and Georgia, Russia grabbed a big chunk of that in 2008 and declared them as indecent republics of ingushetia and ossetia.
I really don’t know how this is going to pan out, but nobody else does either, doubt it’s going to be a world war, as even putin isn’t that mad to do that, and if he did, I guess the Russian public would turn nasty quite quickly, then he’d be having to sort internal affairs out as well as fighting a war.
 
5Live gave just had an ”expert” on who was surprised Russia had attacked. Not much of an expert then….
 
I think we're too late for any none military response to have a significant impact. Various countries in the West over the last number of years have:
Let oligarchs wash their money through their banks
Taken large donations for it's political parties
Become reliant on their energy
Turned an effective blind eye to Crimea
Allowed disinformation on their social media platforms
Allowed their elections to be corrupted and then refused to properly investigate
Made no real impact when people have been murdered by the Russsian State on their shores

This latest action has been enabled by all of the above.
Is it paranoia to wonder how much Russia has influenced western politics to leave both the USA and Europe weaker than they were 5-10 years ago
 
Not at all, Brexit and Trump wouldn't have happened without Russian influence
Can't speak to Brexit but I'm not convinced of that re: Trump. Not to say Russia didn't influence things, just not sure they were a deciding factor.

There are a lot of bigoted people here.
 
One of the markets I manage is the RU team, and I also have Polish and Romanian markets and they are all impacted. One of our agents called an advertiser in Ukraine this morning for their scheduled appointment and the customer was in the car with their family trying to flee Kiev to get to safety. Its mad how it is impacting us and far reaching. The agents on the team have a lot of anxiety as they are mostly Ukrainian. The Russians on the team also feel a sense of guilt at what their country is doing.
Its interesting to see that Putin certainly does not represent the average Russian
 
One of the markets I manage is the RU team, and I also have Polish and Romanian markets and they are all impacted. One of our agents called an advertiser in Ukraine this morning for their scheduled appointment and the customer was in the car with their family trying to flee Kiev to get to safety. Its mad how it is impacting us and far reaching. The agents on the team have a lot of anxiety as they are mostly Ukrainian. The Russians on the team also feel a sense of guilt at what their country is doing.
Its interesting to see that Putin certainly does not represent the average Russian
What? A dictator doesn't represent the majority of it's Country's people?
 
What? A dictator doesn't represent the majority of it's Country's people?
Well.... it's a strange one with Putin.

He has huge support, not just in Russia but outside of it too. He appeals to the hardline far-right, and also to the conservatives in Russia who yearn for a return to the 'glory days' of the Soviet empire.
I know for sure people on my Russian team like him, but I know for sure that many more don't.
 
Just listening to The World at One and there is a young Ukrainian woman who's studying in London, she's going back to defend her country. It's been quite chilling listening as it's brought home the human aspect and how this isn't going to be a short term thing at all.
 
There’s a strip of land between Moldova and Ukraine called Transnistra, it’s a breakaway republic after a civil war with Moldova, only Russia recognises it, it uses roubles as currency, that could be another bit of land grab after the Ukraine outing.
Moldova and Transnistria are an interesting one. In the rest of the country, Moldovans are ethnically Romanian, they speak Romanian, and if not for the vagaries of how the Soviets decided where and how to create extra republics from the Russian Empire they'd probably still be part of Romania.

There's significant public support in Moldova for reunification with Romania, but it's never quite had the political will to push for a referendum (and all the policy work that it would entail) to make it happen. Wonder if that might change if it looks like the alternative is becoming another Russian buffer state.
 
There’s a strip of land between Moldova and Ukraine called Transnistra, it’s a breakaway republic after a civil war with Moldova, only Russia recognises it, it uses roubles as currency, that could be another bit of land grab after the Ukraine outing.
One of the agents on the RU team is Moldovan and has just posted that people fleeing into Moldova should avoid Transnistra for the reasons you mention.
 
Without wanting to sound all wishy-washy because that's not me at all but I am so fucking angry with the gun eyed fucking misfit, after all the fucking shit that the entire world has endured for 2 long years, we are now beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel and fucking Kossack Joe has start waving his dick around in an attempt at being the big tough guy and is potentially threatening the lives of millions of ordinary people in the process.

The stupid cunt is so fucking tough he is apparently too scared to go out in case he catches Covid. Even John, the 82 year old bloke next door to me has started visiting the garden centres again.

Cunt. Putin, not John
Not to be too conspiratorial about it, but you have to wonder if he's either had covid (and it's affected his mental health), or his anxiety over the possibility of catching it has also played a part in this.

A number of people who have met with him over the last couple of years (Macron most recently and notably) have said that Putin seems a lot more antagonistic, prickly, and perhaps even irrational. While it is possible to see the logic behind what he's doing - the US is still in a weakened state, Europe is ineffectual and unable to wean itself off Russian gas, so now's as good a chance as any - it's a hell of a gamble. You don't have to be a master strategist to see that this is inevitably going to lead to everyone on the Russian border clamouring for NATO membership, and a likely boost to defence investment by countries like Germany, Poland, Czechia, Finland, etc. And as much as Russia has an opening now, it absolutely could not handle going toe-to-toe with all of NATO if a land war did break out somewhere like the Baltics.

It feels like an extremely effective way to fuck yourself over in the longer term, for the sake of shorter term territorial expansion.
 
Just listening to The World at One and there is a young Ukrainian woman who's studying in London, she's going back to defend her country. It's been quite chilling listening as it's brought home the human aspect and how this isn't going to be a short term thing at all.
I admire her resolve and wish her the best, but damn. That's some choice.
 
When did the Czech Republic just become "Czechia"?
 
I ended up in Transnistra completely by accident, I was cycling Eastern Europe, coming out of Ukraine to moldova, forgot it was there, ended up at the border post had to take everything off the bike and lay it out on the ground while armed border guards watched, took my passport off me then disappeared into an office, 13 hrs later it came back and I was allowed to repack and continued on my way, I’m really proud of that stamp in my passport, it was hard earned.
The Ukraine border on the way in I was met by a stunning girl, in army uniform, full make up and holding an AK47, she passed my passport up the chain, the officer in charge come down, asked where I was going?
I said “err ukraine, Kiev, Chernobyl, Odessa, err dunno” he said “ Kiev beautiful, Odessa no, Chernobyl? Did the sign for mad, and then enjoy Ukraine” as I was cycling off he slapped my back so hard, and I wasn’t expecting it I fell off
 
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