Wolves 0-2 Southampton (FAC): The Verdict

[redvictor]

A lot of what has gone wrong this season is on Nuno, don't get me wrong. He needs to put it right too, ahead of next season. I just find it quite sad that people are so quick to dismiss and prepared to move on at the first sign of trouble from someone who has quite literally transformed the club. I don't want to hear 'there's no sentiment in football' either. We aren't the ones making that decision anyway.

I'm still in the Nuno in camp. But every defeat and performance like this makes the Nuno out crowd bigger. It seems that being the best manager we've had for years doesn't make a difference to some people.
I hope he does put it right. I don't think it needs much to do it either. A change in thinking is probably the biggest thing he could do right now.

 

[YoungWolf]

There have to be the green shoots of recovery though, and a demonstration you know the problems and can solve them. He needs to show that sharpish, a whole season like this isn't easy to come back from

Oh we definitely need to finish the season with better results and performances, just to give us something to be looking forward to next season or it intensifies the pressure.

Leicester for example was a good sign. We played well, should have won. Felt like a turning point to me having won the Arsenal game in a fairly morale boosting way. It still can be one too. There have been times with the 4231 where we have seen the potential too, but the injury to Boly for now means it will be a back three I think. Him and Jonny make the back four viable I reckon.

 

[slink]

I think we are in danger of rewriting history here with Nuno. It feels like people are making out like he got lucky for three years (which is hilarious because it's our best 3 consecutive years in at least 40 years).

He's been a huge part of Jota's development, likewise with many players. Diogo was absolutely fine in the 343 when we got the positional play right (ie. playing nearer to the striker). There were just times where we would end up with him too wide because Jonny often came inside.

Oh don't get me wrong Nuno did a fantastic job in the first 3 years. My best times following the club by far and we had a plan. Yes that plan had a ceiling but we had a plan that took us to two 7th placed finishes and a European quarter final. That's not luck but i don't think he got the best out of Jota a lot of the time in the Premier League. I think that's the case with so many of our players now too, he's not getting the best out of them because we don't have a plan when we have the ball.

 

[redvictor]

Oh we definitely need to finish the season with better results and performances, just to give us something to be looking forward to next season or it intensifies the pressure.

Leicester for example was a good sign. We played well, should have won. Felt like a turning point to me having won the Arsenal game in a fairly morale boosting way. It still can be one too. There have been times with the 4231 where we have seen the potential too, but the injury to Boly for now means it will be a back three I think. Him and Jonny make the back four viable I reckon.

Yep. I thought we had turned the corner after the Leicester performance. You would hope that because the side was a mish mash tonight they will be confident that the full strength side would play with a totally different mindset.
This game has become much bigger than it should be.
I would be hugely surprised if we played anything other than the team that played Leicester.

 

[sycophantia]

I'm still in the Nuno in camp. But every defeat and performance like this makes the Nuno out crowd bigger. It seems that being the best manager we've had for years doesn't make a difference to some people.
I hope he does put it right. I don't think it needs much to do it either. A change in thinking is probably the biggest thing he could do right now.

Think tonight was Nuno's biggest error since he got here, not just the way we played but not taking the game seriously enough. He's still got credit in the bank for me but absolutely has to bring some sort of cohesive, style to the team and it needs to be pro active and decent to watch......and that has to start Sunday

 

[redvictor]

Think tonight was Nuno's biggest error since he got here, not just the way we played but not taking the game seriously enough. He's still got credit in the bank for me but absolutely has to bring some sort of cohesive, style to the team and it needs to be pro active and decent to watch......and that has to start Sunday

Agreed. We need to go back to how we used to play. Exciting counter attacking football and a solid defence.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Wouldn’t say this is the first sign of trouble. We haven’t played well all season.

We still have the same problems now we had when we first came into the league - What do we do when we have a sustained period of possession / the opposition sit off.

In the second season we always conceded the first goal and had the best “points from behind stat” as we were always behind.

Now we still have those attacking issues, concede chances/goals in any system, and dont particularly play well on the counter either. We used to be good at both direct and indirect set pieces too. Now they are more likely to lead to a yellow card to us or a chance to the opposition.

We finished 7th last year, great achievement. But we were the right side of a lot of fine margins. Now all of a sudden we’re the wrong side of those fine margins and we’re mid table fodder.

Poor recruitment, injuries, bad luck haven’t helped, and have accentuated the issues/performances. But they were already there

 

[YoungWolf]

Wouldn’t say this is the first sign of trouble. We haven’t played well all season. This season, more so the form since Raul’s injury, is the first sign of trouble

We still have the same problems now we had when we first came into the league - What do we do when we have a sustained period of possession / the opposition sit off. Though there were still times we struggled with this, we improved massively in this aspect last season hence our improved record against the teams lower in the league. Not perfect but was being improved upon.

In the second season we always conceded the first goal and had the best “points from behind stat” as we were always behind. Variance, we had a bit of a freak run with that last season which is nothing like the reason we keep conceding first this season. Quite often teams scored with their first attack/shots or from low expectancy shots. This year we concede first because we are to deep, passive and generally negative.

Now we still have those attacking issues, concede chances/goals in any system, and dont particularly play well on the counter either. We used to be good at both direct and indirect set pieces too. Now they are more likely to lead to a yellow card to us or a chance to the opposition agree on most of this particular regarding this seasons struggles

We finished 7th last year, great achievement. But we were the right side of a lot of fine margins. Now all of a sudden we’re the wrong side of those fine margins and we’re mid table fodder. Completely disagree, we should have finished 6th IMO, quite a few fine margins still went against us last season that stopped that from happening.

Poor recruitment, injuries, bad luck haven’t helped, and have accentuated the issues/performances. But they were already there

There’s plenty to explain the bad performances this season, and as I say most of it is on Nuno. He’s not been able to get it consistently right at any point this season. The bits in bold are my responses to your other points.

Edit: also no idea how I managed to make it look like I’m quoting different posts. Ha

 

[Mild 'n' Scratchins]

For the rest of the season I want to split up the pairing of Neves and Moutinho. Their win record is awful.
I would also like to see a proper 4-2-3-1 when Boly and Podence are fit.
Rui P
Semedo Coady Boly Jonny
Neves Dendonker
Traore Podence Neto
Willian Jose

That should be the starting 11 with subs
Ruddy
Kilman
Silva
Otasowie
Podence
Vitinha
Moutinho
Saiss.
MGW.

I'd have Otasowie instead of Donk. Otherwise, wouldn't it have been nice to field that kind of side tonight? Oh well.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

mesut

Obsessed, man

 

[YoungWolf]

Obsessed, man

The fact that autocorrected me trying to put edit on my phone says a lot doesn’t it?! Time for bed

 

[big mean bunny]

Having slept on my thoughts, I can say that the issue last night was clearly Saiss new hair cut. Threw everyone off.

 

[Walnut]

The game last night was a cup match, not looking for points in the league, and we had 1 shot on target ffs. It was absolutely awful. Also with Silva I have watched every game he has played in and I just can't see any progress from him. I think we have had our pants pulled down regarding the amount of money we have paid for him.

 

[AndyWolves]

The game last night was a cup match, not looking for points in the league, and we had 1 shot on target ffs. It was absolutely awful. Also with Silva I have watched every game he has played in and I just can't see any progress from him. I think we have had our pants pulled down regarding the amount of money we have paid for him.

We won't know the definitive answer to that until he gets to 21/22.

 

[Jinky]

So, the morning after the night before, and I'm sad to say the 'performance' doesn't look any better.

Nuno throwing certain players under the bus isn't a good look. Giving Southampton some confidence leading in to the weekend isn't a good look. Making the match at the weekend much more important than it needed to be, isn't a good look.

I really 'felt' for the first time last night an outpouring across all platforms of frustration at both the manager and the players. They're probably quite sheltered from it at the moment, not having the fans in the ground - and whilst I don't like to see the players or manager being 'booed' or shouted at from the stands, you have to wonder whether they realise just how shit it is at the moment*

I think it was Spiers who tweeted after the game that it feels like our season is over in February and I have to agree with him. We're not qualifying for Europe. We won't go down. We're out of all the cups. Great stuff!

* yes, yes, we all know it could be worse

 

[prawnking]

We won't know the definitive answer to that until he gets to 21/22.

So what do we do when we need a striker for the next four years then? I'm already reading people saying they don't want to take minutes from him next year. Which is it?

 

[AndyWolves]

So what do we do when we need a striker for the next four years then? I'm already reading people saying they don't want to take minutes from him next year. Which is it?

You really are looking for a fight this morning aren't you?

Whether we get another striker in or not within the next 3/4 years, it has no bearing on my view that it is far too early to be writing him off. As I said, if he's still not up to it when he's 21/22/23 then it will have been a colossal waste of money. I won't let circumstances and things beyond his control affect my opinion of him as a player.

 

[prawnking]

You really are looking for a fight this morning aren't you?

Whether we get another striker in or not within the next 3/4 years, it has no bearing on my view that it is far too early to be writing him off. As I said, if he's still not up to it when he's 21/22/23 then it will have been a colossal waste of money. I won't let circumstances and things beyond his control affect my opinion of him as a player.

Why is asking you a direct question looking for a fight? Weird how so few posters get odd, irrelevant comments like this.

A club like us is fighting tooth and nail to even stay in comfortable mid table in a league like this, let alone have higher aspirations. It concerns me that the only fit striker we own is a project we have to treat with kid gloves for three or four years. That's almost the amount of time Nuno's already been here.

If we want to get back to competing in four competitions at some point before Ruben Neves retires we need to get a striker Plan B and keep Fabio as Plan C. And hope that Plan A returns soon and is the same player

 

[AndyWolves]

Why is asking you a direct question looking for a fight? Weird how so few posters get odd, irrelevant comments like this.

A club like us is fighting tooth and nail to even stay in comfortable mid table in a league like this, let alone have higher aspirations. It concerns me that the only fit striker we own is a project we have to treat with kid gloves for three or four years. That's almost the amount of time Nuno's already been here.

If we want to get back to competing in four competitions at some point before Ruben Neves retires we need to get a striker Plan B and keep Fabio as Plan C. And hope that Plan A returns soon and is the same player

It is strange isn't it?

Anyway, not having a plan B is not Silva's fault and I don't feel it's fair to criticise him as such. He's clearly got lots of development to do physically (so he's no longer a child!) and therefore it's reasonable to expect him to improve as he goes through said development. I feel that neither the price tag nor the situation are fair criteria to be evaluating Silva right now.

As an analogy, you wouldn't hire a student with 5A* and put him straight into a senior management position and then wonder why he doesn't so as well as the guy whose been doing it for 9-10 years would you?

 

[PuntsWolf]

There’s plenty to explain the bad performances this season, and as I say most of it is on Nuno. He’s not been able to get it consistently right at any point this season. The bits in bold are my responses to your other points.

Edit: also no idea how I managed to make it look like I’m quoting different posts. Ha

That is all fair.

The one thing I would say is I don’t think the fact our points tally improved against the shit teams tells us much.

Watford (H) - good win. They were hopeless though. Lost 8-0 the week before, weren’t playing for the manager, hadn’t won yet, didn’t win for a while after.

Villa (H) - we were way better than them. No way should it have been 1-0 for so long, still only actually scored from a set piece. They didn’t have Grealish and they were a one man team.

Bournemouth (A) - scored from two set pieces. They were down to 10 men after 37 mins. Probably less comfortable after this than before strangely.

WHU (H) - they were abject. We scored again from a set piece. Fabianski did make a few good saves in this if I remember it right. Late goal sealed it.

Norwich (A) - awful. Equalised from a set piece Raul got the winner. Norwich weren't exactly a let us have the ball team. Played like a top 6 team with championship players.

Watford (A) - lost

Norwich (H) - comfortable win. The above applies though.

Brighton and Newcastle - won 0 out of 4.

The three win against WHU, Villa and Bournemouth were the definition of our fine margins. Didn’t really work the keepers, scored from our individual quality with our one good chance.

So from those games pre lockdown I can see that our main success was from set pieces. No problem with that, massive part of the game. But you can’t exactly use it to say we improved our attacking in open play.

This time last year we’d have said Rui, Jonny, Boly, Coady (in a three), Neves, Moutinho, Neto, Traore, Jota, Raul were all well worthy of positions in squads in the top 6. So I can think it’s fair to assume we should be pretty successful generally against some absolutely dire teams.