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Wolves 1-2 Everton: Verdict Thread

prawnking

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I`m in the play a back three camp. If Semedo and RAN are expected to get forward as much as possible, they need support defensively because they are not very good defensively. Semedo seems to play better going forward when Traore isn`t playing. I think we would have been dead and buried first half if Calvert-Lewin had been on the end of those crosses from Digne.

What do you suggest for the midfield then? We need to get goals from there as we can't be sure Semedo or RAN have goals in them in the way Doc did.

Neves has been much improved lately, but for me Donk has the same goalscoring instincts as Coady and Moutinho is terrified of even having a shot.

Or would you tweak the front three?
 

AndyWolves

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It's hardly surprising that when we get more players in the box we look more vulnerable defensively. It's not like Everton were calving us open at will. They had 3 shots at goal, 1 of them was a deflected shot and another has a superb header than 9 times out of 10 isn't a goal (or if you believe xG only results in a goal 0.02 times it's attempted).

I'm happy for us to be more adventurous in our games even if it leaves us a bit more exposed at the back. Feint heart never caught fair maiden!

The biggest thing I'd like us to address is the tiredness / tempo drop after 60 minutes, we either need subs earlier to better control of the game to allow us to get a breather in.

This feels like another result that's turned on fine margins where in previous seasons we were getting the rub.
 

Del Woppio

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The big problem is that we've left ourselves in the position of not really having a good enough defence to play 4231, a good enough midfield to play a 343, or a good enough forward line to play a 352. Whatever we do, we're compromised in one third of the pitch.

The 4231 should work, as the two should be able to properly cover the forward going fullbacks, but it just never happens properly. Henderson does it pretty much on his own at Liverpool, but we're for some reason finding ourselves exposed, while at the same time not creating much even when we've got plenty of men up field.

The lack of cohesion between whatever lads are attacking isn't getting any better imo. We don't move the ball between players we'll enough or quick enough, and are far too reliant on individual brilliance, and that's got to be tactical.
 

Premier Quality

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I think if we had Raul, we’d be fine. He’d be scoring goals, winning headers and linking play and we’d be around seventh again.

he covers a lot of holes because he’s so good, and now he’s not playing, those holes are being exposed.
 

Haggstone

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An in form Boly would also help, not the post lock down version.
 

The Bear

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I'm sort of with Jinky regarding Semedo. I was expecting a swashbuckling attacking full-back based on his videos from Barca and their fans opinions that he'd be great once free from Messi hogging the limelight down his side.

He's started showing better signs the more he settles in, and his link up with team mates is definitely improving. Several times last night he overlapped and had the ball in crossing positions, albeit he didn't make the most of them.

His defensive issues are more pronounced though. He kept letting crosses get put in last night from Digne, and with someone like that you need to get tighter as he's not gonna beat Semedo for pace. It was all a bit passive and stand offish and there is definitely some coaching needed for me on that side of the game. Particularly if we keep him as a RB and not a WB.
 

Tony Towner

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I'm sort of with Jinky regarding Semedo. I was expecting a swashbuckling attacking full-back based on his videos from Barca and their fans opinions that he'd be great once free from Messi hogging the limelight down his side.

He's started showing better signs the more he settles in, and his link up with team mates is definitely improving. Several times last night he overlapped and had the ball in crossing positions, albeit he didn't make the most of them.

His defensive issues are more pronounced though. He kept letting crosses get put in last night from Digne, and with someone like that you need to get tighter as he's not gonna beat Semedo for pace. It was all a bit passive and stand offish and there is definitely some coaching needed for me on that side of the game. Particularly if we keep him as a RB and not a WB.
I'm interested in understanding what Johnny and YW were saying about not concentrating on cutting out crosses into the box, but defending them once they are there.

I'd not considered this as a deliberate tactic, but if it is then it removes a lot of the criticism I have for Semedo. I'd like to know what the theory is behind this though as surely you are susceptible to a killer ball, a defensive mistake, a ropey penalty rather than stopping the cross at source. Notwithstanding the fact that we're not good at it anyway.

Digne showed the danger that Semedo could be last night if you take the defensive duties off him, but to do that think you need a back 3
 
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Haggstone

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I'm interested in understanding what Johnny and YW were saying about not concentrating on cutting out crosses into the box, but defending them once they are there.

I'd not considered this as a deliberate tactic, but if it is then it removes a lot of the criticism I have for Semedo. I'd like to know what the theory is behind this though as surely you are susceptible to a killer ball, a defensive mistake, a ropey penalty rather than stopping the cross at source. Notwithstanding the fact that we're not good at it anyway.

Digne showed the danger that Semodo could be last night if you take the defensive duties off him, but to do that think you need a back 3
I assume the idea is to channel the winger into positions where delivering a killer ball is harder and so the balance shifts in favour of the defending team. Rather than committing to stopping the cross altogether and in doing so making it easier for the winger to deliver a more dangerous cross or nip inside.
 

Tony Towner

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I assume the idea is to channel the winger into positions where delivering a killer ball is harder and so the balance shifts in favour of the defending team. Rather than committing to stopping the cross altogether and in doing so making it easier for the winger to deliver a more dangerous cross or nip inside.
Thanks, that all makes sense, but it's not what we do.
 
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I think there’s a larger problem at FB as you can see we are deliberately allowing crosses to come in with minimal pressure and trying to defend from there. That can’t continue as we can’t defend the cross in the air.
Genuine question.

Is this really a thing? I understand in games you will allow the opposition to do certain things and have the ball in areas that you don't perceive as dangerous, but allowing a free cross into the box?

If it is, I'm with you in the fact that we MUST stop this tactic. We're awful defensively in the air and Rui is showing no signs of leaving his line at the moment. Both FB's are weak on the back post, Saiss is often too preoccupied with the man and not the ball and Coady (who's getting a relative free pass but isn't pulling any trees up at all this season) isn't really a ball attacking centre half. He made the conversion comfortably in a three as the libero only.

Whatever the question though, I'm not sure that Semedo gives us what we need now or possibly in the future. Is he a bad footballer? Obviously not as he played at the highest level, but is he suited for Wolves in this PL era? Probably not.

EDIT: I can see this was being asked above as I single finger typed this.
 
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PuntsWolf

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Digne showed the danger that Semedo could be last night if you take the defensive duties off him, but to do that think you need a back 3

But Digne’s delivery is top notch. Semedo’s isn’t.

They also have two big physical forwards to get on the end of it as well as a host of midfielders who attack the box or you’d be happy for them for the ball to fall to on the edge of the box, not Moutinho and Donck
 

redvictor

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We could deal with some of the crosses that come in if Rui came for the ball more often. That in itself relieves a lot of pressure from the defence. It seems to have gone from his game recently. Ruddy does this on a regular basis when he plays ( granted it isn't often), but him and Rui certainly practice together.
 

Haggstone

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Matt Murray was one of the best goal keepers I have ever seen at claiming crosses. Phenomenal keeper. Legs made of biscuits.
 

redvictor

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Matt Murray was one of the best goal keepers I have ever seen at claiming crosses. Phenomenal keeper. Legs made of biscuits.
He was, and how we could do with him in there at the moment! Don't get me wrong, Rui is a world class keeper, but recently he's made some decisions that aren't normally him. The coming for crosses thing is a big part of his game he has given up for some reason. It is not helping our defence.
 

Johnny75

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Genuine question.

Is this really a thing? I understand in games you will allow the opposition to do certain things and have the ball in areas that you don't perceive as dangerous, but allowing a free cross into the box?

Yes it looks to be a genuine tactic. Apologies in advance if I come across as patronising.

Our full backs drop off into space so an advancing player can get to a position to put a cross in without direct pressure. This assumes two things:

1) Nuno backs his players to win any cross coming into the box which allows our midfielders that have dropped back to win second balls

2) The opposition attack the cross in numbers so leaving space for Adama and Neto in particular to attack at pace and against slower opposition

If we wanted to stop the cross at source we would get two players back against any player looking to cross the ball in. This could be a central midfielder or defender getting across on a high press whilst the full back tracks back and becomes the second pressure stopping the wide player from turning or getting a cross in.

Watching Saiss and Coady they are always pointing at players to drop in and they stay central to win the headers on those crosses. If they wanted to stop the cross they would be out in the face of the potential crosser.

The problem is neither Coady or Saiss are that good in the air to win the cross and Rui has become a vampire in the last month.

Added to this if Nuno wants to play possession football then setting up for a counter is, well, counter productive. He needs to decide what he wants to do as at the moment he is caught between two stools.

Tl;dr It’s a deliberate tactic that enables us to play on the counter.
 

Johnny75

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He was, and how we could do with him in there at the moment! Don't get me wrong, Rui is a world class keeper, but recently he's made some decisions that aren't normally him. The coming for crosses thing is a big part of his game he has given up for some reason. It is not helping our defence.
Murray would’ve been appalling in the era of sweeper keepers. He couldn’t play football for shit.

He’d have been a hell of a TE in the NFL.
 

redvictor

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Murray would’ve been appalling in the era of sweeper keepers. He couldn’t play football for shit.

He’d have been a hell of a TE in the NFL.
I don't think Rui can play football for shit either. He hardly ever comes out of the 18 yd box, and very rarely starts attacks off, were as Ruddy does the latter. Rui would certainly not be a WR as currently he's not catching a cold.
 

prawnking

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Yes it looks to be a genuine tactic. Apologies in advance if I come across as patronising.

Our full backs drop off into space so an advancing player can get to a position to put a cross in without direct pressure. This assumes two things:

1) Nuno backs his players to win any cross coming into the box which allows our midfielders that have dropped back to win second balls

2) The opposition attack the cross in numbers so leaving space for Adama and Neto in particular to attack at pace and against slower opposition

If we wanted to stop the cross at source we would get two players back against any player looking to cross the ball in. This could be a central midfielder or defender getting across on a high press whilst the full back tracks back and becomes the second pressure stopping the wide player from turning or getting a cross in.

Watching Saiss and Coady they are always pointing at players to drop in and they stay central to win the headers on those crosses. If they wanted to stop the cross they would be out in the face of the potential crosser.

The problem is neither Coady or Saiss are that good in the air to win the cross and Rui has become a vampire in the last month.

Added to this if Nuno wants to play possession football then setting up for a counter is, well, counter productive. He needs to decide what he wants to do as at the moment he is caught between two stools.

Tl;dr It’s a deliberate tactic that enables us to play on the counter.
Thanks for this, dead interesting and the line about Nuno being caught between two stools really resonates.

I think it's clear on occasion he struggles to reconcile his natural conservatism with the progressive direction he's set us on, and you can see that in some of the players too.
 

YoungWolf

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Yes it looks to be a genuine tactic. Apologies in advance if I come across as patronising.

Our full backs drop off into space so an advancing player can get to a position to put a cross in without direct pressure. This assumes two things:

1) Nuno backs his players to win any cross coming into the box which allows our midfielders that have dropped back to win second balls

2) The opposition attack the cross in numbers so leaving space for Adama and Neto in particular to attack at pace and against slower opposition

If we wanted to stop the cross at source we would get two players back against any player looking to cross the ball in. This could be a central midfielder or defender getting across on a high press whilst the full back tracks back and becomes the second pressure stopping the wide player from turning or getting a cross in.

Watching Saiss and Coady they are always pointing at players to drop in and they stay central to win the headers on those crosses. If they wanted to stop the cross they would be out in the face of the potential crosser.

The problem is neither Coady or Saiss are that good in the air to win the cross and Rui has become a vampire in the last month.

Added to this if Nuno wants to play possession football then setting up for a counter is, well, counter productive. He needs to decide what he wants to do as at the moment he is caught between two stools.

Tl;dr It’s a deliberate tactic that enables us to play on the counter.
What I would add to this is as well is that crossing (and when I say this I mean from deep, wide areas) isn't really the most effective tactic. So for all everyone is saying how Semedo didn't stop crosses etc, the few chances they created weren't from those situations. The corner has come from the clearance and then crossed in I know, but Donck should know better than allow the cross come in with so many players in the box just after a set piece.

Where we struggled mainlyI felt was from the switches of play to Digne where he could get in positions to cut back or pass into the box and when James drifted into pockets down the right to play Iwobi in behind RAN.
 
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