Wolves - Sevilla EUROPA LEAGUE QUARTER FINAL Math thread

[Tony Towner]

Always been a nonsense argument I'm afraid.

Where we were X amount of years ago is irrelevant. People are watching and commenting based on the level we are currently at and the resources this club has now. We are in a position no-one thought we'd get to so quickly but that doesn't mean we're just going to settle and assume this is as good as it's ever going to get.

We know how ambitious Fosun are, I'm sure they're not sitting there tonight saying "Oh well we were 15th in the Championship when we took over, how can we do any better than we already have?".

Sorry, not having that. The team have been on their last legs for weeks. Coady, Neves, Doherty, Boly, Saiss, Traore, Jota, Vinagre all played for us or someone else when we were in the Championship. The bench outside of those we brought on were kids, it's not sustainable and if people think that taking on and beating Sevilla with that backdrop is where we are at then they are deluded

 

[Jack Regan]

Might draw some flack but hey ho, I don't think Sevilla are particularly that good. Technically very nice but as an attacking threat they were seriously lacking, nothing upfront, all neat and tidy but overly reliant on crosses and without us switching off at the last they never really created anything.

They were basically there for the taking first 20 minutes until they dropped a midfielder back in to nullify Traore. Had Raul or then the officials done the business I think we probably win the game (but who knows in that regard?).

What I will say is, I'm still proud of where we are and what we've achieved this season? It's a little disappointing as we probably should have qualified for Europe again through the league. However a few new players in and we can definitely push on again.

 

[Tony Towner]

Might draw some flack but hey ho, I don't think Sevilla are particularly that good. Technically very nice but as an attacking threat they were seriously lacking, nothing upfront, all neat and tidy but overly reliant on crosses and without us switching off at the last they never really created anything.

They were basically there for the taking first 20 minutes until they dropped a midfielder back in to nullify Traore. Had Raul or then the officials done the business I think we probably win the game (but who knows in that regard?).

What I will say is, I'm still proud of where we are and what we've achieved this season? It's a little disappointing as we probably should have qualified for Europe again through the league. However a few new players in and we can definitely push on again.

I don't think they are all that great, I think United will turn them over, I think people fail to see where we've been physically and maybe mentally for weeks.

 

[YoungWolf]

Nuno will need to adapt too in order to continue progressing I feel.

Think there were complaints from previous jobs that he set teams up too conservatively? Obviously wasn't so much of an issue at Wolves to begin with compared to the clubs he'd previously managed but if you're looking to consistently get around the European places then perceptions will changes, teams will setup more defensively against you and you'll have to be more proactive in how you play as a result to combat that. There have been games where this has been played out with Wolves tentatively jabbing at opposition who have little interest in exposing themselves but also there have been a few games where the shackles appear to have been loosened a little, Traore appearing as wingback, Dendoncker at centre half etc. so it would appear it's something he has half a mind on at least. Think you could make a big difference purely in the mentality of the team without really changing personnel, push the back 3 up higher and trust them to take a few more risks with their passing, have the midfielders playing between the lines more rather than always looking to come deep and take easy passes from the defence but that's obviously going to compromise the defensive solidity that this team is built on by leaving so much space in behind.

Then you've got the squad issue too, obviously a very small squad at the moment but made even smaller in reality by the relatively small number of players within it who are seemingly trusted to make any substantial number of appearances. Next season it perhaps won't be such an issue with the lack of European football and more opportunity to give players a few days rest between games if required but again if you're aiming for regular European football then it's a problem you'll face more often than not. A few more bodies in the right positions, certainly need a centre foward and central midfielder who can be trusted to interchange with the current first team incumbents, could make a world of difference and perhaps provide the ability to push on more often in games knowing that there is a viable replacement if a player burns themselves out in a game. By the sounds of it Nuno may have already acknowledged this shortcoming in tonight's post game interview, a couple of Neto like arrivals for the right positions could be ideal this summer, took him a little while to find his feet but now he's sorted himself out he's become a genuine option for a first team spot and as seen tonight can jump ahead of Jota when his form isn't where it needs to be.

Agree with a lot of what you say, but think we have done w lot to improve in this aspect, particularly when you look at our results against the bottom half sides. There have been games where we have played higher, and on the front foot and also times where teams have played a deep block and we have found a way though.

I definitely think part of the evolution of this team has been the flexibility to switch between systems too - as you say too, we can play Dendoncker at the back to bring more progressive passing, or Traore at wing back agains a side like Burnley. More additions will help with that aspect too I think.

Think key area now is to be able to create consistently good chances. We will often be the better team, concede very few chances and create a couple of our own but we can start to make life easier and make our goal difference more impressive too. That way we can reserve energy when 2/3 up possibly too. Hopefully with no Europe, a small positive might be that we don’t have to save so much energy and can exert more energy for longer periods of games.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Might draw some flack but hey ho, I don't think Sevilla are particularly that good. Technically very nice but as an attacking threat they were seriously lacking, nothing upfront, all neat and tidy but overly reliant on crosses and without us switching off at the last they never really created anything.

They were basically there for the taking first 20 minutes until they dropped a midfielder back in to nullify Traore. Had Raul or then the officials done the business I think we probably win the game (but who knows in that regard?).

What I will say is, I'm still proud of where we are and what we've achieved this season? It's a little disappointing as we probably should have qualified for Europe again through the league. However a few new players in and we can definitely push on again.

Agree that they were pretty easily nullified, think when you've got a team throwing in crosses when their centre forward is outnumbered 3 to 1 you probably have to say they're probably getting a bit desperate. They obviously had a lot of the ball around midfield, pretty much everyone does against Wolves, but other than trying to feed it in between midfield and defence a few times, from where it was usually played straight back under pressure, they didn't really make any great in roads for all their possession. As you say, even the goal was a lapse in Wolves concentration rather than anything particularly good from Sevilla.

 

[Gonby's Games Gone By]

They were putting in crosses because Wolves were sitting very deep. But the crosses were consistently in the right areas, in a way ours so scarcely are. Some serious talent in that squad.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Last season we got knocked out by Watford, this season it's Sevilla - that's progress

Actually to be pedantic we have been knocked out of cups by Sevilla and Aston Villa this season! Lets hope the same fate awaits this Villa in the final. I wasnt keen on them at all.

 

[Dire Wolf]

I don't understand the whole "look at where we were, you can't complain" argument to be honest. Let's just acknowledge that everyone, EVERYONE, appreciates how far we have come and how tremendous it is to be a Wolves fan at the moment. It is fantastic. But that simply does not put the team, manager, players or owners above criticism.

I think today's performance wasn't very good by OUR standards, regardless of who the opposition were. We were negative, offered little in the way of an attacking threat and were very poor in possession, gifting it back to them far too easily time after time. We resorted to long ball, hit and hope tactics. It was painful to watch and lacked in entertainment terms. We are capable of better. A lot better. We put in a hard working defensive display and there was no shortage of effort, just quality on the ball. By our own high standards we weren't very good.

But we can all appreciate what a tremendous team we have and it is disappointing for them to not finish on a high. Next season we will come back strong.

 

[Jack Regan]

Aside from maybe Suso, Reguilon (isn't their player) Ocampos and Koundo I wouldn't take any of them over our players (Jordan is ok and Banega is basically an Argentine Moutinho) but you wouldn't necessarily back any of the rest to improve our starting 11. Let's face it, if we weren't winning a game there is no way we ever consider throwing on someone like Luuk de Jong in an attempt to win it.

Therefore it's a little disappointing that we're out but understandable with the limits of our squad, and the amount of games they've had to play before lockdown and then in the intensive period afterwards.

 

[Alan]

Not apples to apples, though, is it? The demands of La Liga are different from the demands of the Prem, if ever so slightly.

 

[Tony Towner]

I don't understand the whole "look at where we were, you can't complain" argument to be honest. Let's just acknowledge that everyone, EVERYONE, appreciates how far we have come and how tremendous it is to be a Wolves fan at the moment. It is fantastic. But that simply does not put the team, manager, players or owners above criticism.

I think today's performance wasn't very good by OUR standards, regardless of who the opposition were. We were negative, offered little in the way of an attacking threat and were very poor in possession, gifting it back to them far too easily time after time. We resorted to long ball, hit and hope tactics. It was painful to watch and lacked in entertainment terms. We are capable of better. A lot better. We put in a hard working defensive display and there was no shortage of effort, just quality on the ball. By our own high standards we weren't very good.

But we can all appreciate what a tremendous team we have and it is disappointing for them to not finish on a high. Next season we will come back strong.

Can you understand the team is completely fucked and because of that hasn't done themselves justice for over a month argument then? It worries me for next season, but completely explains our last few games. I find the rush to condemn but not understand all a bit strange

 

[Del Woppio]

Appalling decision by the var, it's genuinely outrageous. Hard to say anything other than Sevilla deserved to go through, all in all. Hopefully fewer games and another 3 genuine first team options in the next few weeks and we'll be in position for top 6 next season.

Thought vinagre and doc were excellent defensively. Saiss was done four or five times by a ball down his blind side, including one leading to the corner they scored from. That position is the first one that needs upgrading for me, then CM, as we can't use Joao like we have from now on, it's ridiculous.

Sevilla were always in control, we didn't have a structured counter, it was just give it to adama and see what happens. Disappointing lack of football played but you've got to accept you're up against a better team and it showed, I guess. Nuno does need to remember that we've worried better teams than this though, when we try to. I think he knows he needs more players, and hopefully he's backed.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

FWIW I think 0-0 at 90 minutes would have been about right. They had loads of the ball but didn't particularly hurt us. Rui didn't have much to do, there was nothing gilt-edged that they missed. But it's fine margins, sometimes when you play that way it can go against you.

Let's say Raul scores (originally or via the retake that we obviously should have had) and everything else follows the same pattern, but we don't concede. Looks like a well managed game then. Restricted them, defended well, virtually never got pulled out of shape. Ah well.

I thought they managed Adama well after the penalty. Got him into situations where he isn't the most comfortable. He tried his best and clearly we were trying to get everything through him on the counter, but it just didn't happen.

On the bright side, better than going out to the rags. Doubtless would have been 0-1, Bruno Penandes.

 

[darlowolf64]

Good points made on this forum but our inability to attack cost us dear -27% possession is no good to anyone.

Man City 76%, Wolves 24% possession... remind me of the score please?

It is how we have played all season against the excellent teams and I don’t get how fans don’t understand this

 

[darlowolf64]

Also, I have patted myself on the back for being the only person to spot the encroachment that everyone is mentioning now...

As for the game, the penalty was obviously crucial and the retake could have swung the game. However, as with disallowed VAR goals we will never know how the rest of the game will have played out.

Am I a little upset with the result? Yes

Do I want to rant at the players for the end to the season? Hell no

Nuns said himself, tonight, that he wants to bring in some players and I’m sure he will. He didn’t talk like a manager on his way out and his contract will be sorted now that the season is finally over

 

[Norman Deeley]

Good interview with Conor Coady after the game if you've not seen it. Just type his name in Twitter search or it's on YouTube.

 

[VanWolfie]

I am gutted by the result because the way Wolves started, I thought we had a real chance. Sevilla gradually took charge of the game as our players became visibly tired. I thought Neves, Donck, Boly, Doc and Vinagre gave their all throughout the second half onslaught. Even though they lost, I'm very proud of what the team has achieved this season.

Later today, I watched the Shakhtar game. They absolutely annihilated Basel and I see them beating Inter and winning the tournament. Sevilla v ManUtd will be decided by penalties but whoever wins won't be able to touch Shakhtar if they play like they did today.

 

[Charlie Wolf]

May be slightly over the top but magnificent season, quality management, superb team...after the last three seasons after many years of mediocrity I can’t be more proud of our team and support.
We are a team on the rise and our progress can be both seen and measured, yes we didn’t win last night or secure a European spot for next season, but we are the real deal and we know, or more importantly Nuno knows where we have to strengthen....and we will
Proud to be part of this Wolves era, just loving it (although I may need to up my blood pressure tablets �&#56832
PS some great posts re: the game, my only couple of points:
When you get a pen you shouldn’t need VAR to give you another chance, you score or the keeper pulls of a worldy, secondly, we defended well to a point where all the Sevilla possession and approach play we were rarely troubled. Remember we were up against one of the favourites to win this and made them look quite ordinary as an attacking force. If we can improve our decision making when in possession and add some attacking intensity (hate say it, but like Man U) we’ll make that next step up in our journey.
COYW��

 

[pacamac]

May be slightly over the top but magnificent season, quality management, superb team...after the last three seasons after many years of mediocrity I can’t be more proud of our team and support.
We are a team on the rise and our progress can be both seen and measured, yes we didn’t win last night or secure a European spot for next season, but we are the real deal and we know, or more importantly Nuno knows where we have to strengthen....and we will
Proud to be part of this Wolves era, just loving it (although I may need to up my blood pressure tablets ��)
PS some great posts re: the game, my only couple of points:
When you get a pen you shouldn’t need VAR to give you another chance, you score or the keeper pulls of a worldy, secondly, we defended well to a point where all the Sevilla possession and approach play we were rarely troubled. Remember we were up against one of the favourites to win this and made them look quite ordinary as an attacking force. If we can improve our decision making when in possession and add some attacking intensity (hate say it, but like Man U) we’ll make that next step up in our journey.
COYW��

Its not over the top its absolutely spot on pal!

 

[pacamac]

Absolutely gutted to go out like that (more for the players more than myself have to say the season ended for me in March).

Thought we played really well stuck to our game plan against a very very good team and but for a tiny lapse in concentration and a an out of character poor penalty kick we would be in a European semi final right now.

Fair play to Vinagre, I said earlier in this thread I'd change the whole defence just to give him more help on the left as saw him as a weak link defensively. I was totally wrong thought he had a really good game and actually showed that he's coming on defensively (we all know he's great going forward).

Players gave it all as they've done most of this very long fucked up season. They deserve a bigger break than the tv company pandering football authorities are going to give them.

Been an amazing season, to finish 7th again (on more points) and reach the quarter finals of the Europa league (after entering at a very early stage). No second season syndrome, no Thursday-Sunday fatigue. Absolutely fantastic.

As for VAR just scrap it seriously I know you could say well if it was scrapped the penalty would definitely not have been retaken which is true but it wasn't anyway! What's the point in turning the game into some Americanised stop start look at a big screen crap if it still comes down to human error anyway.....leave it how it was footballs the most popular game in the world because its a great game stop trying to tinker with it.

Two seasons ago we were being promoted from the championship we are now a consistent top 10 team with the odd good cup/European run! That's a massive achievement and in fairness we've hop skipped and jumped a few 'stages' of the project.

My only fear is the raised expectations that brings the next step (ie gatecrashing the top 5-6) in my opinion is one that will certainly take more time (even with great recruitment). The major threat in my opinion to our progress is the over expectation the last two seasons success might bring.