The Cricket Thread (Sponsored and loved by the Banned Bully & the Norwegian Hobbit)

[Cyber-_-man]

Bairstow seems to believe his own hype a little too much, like a few other players too.

If they want to play red ball cricket (and perhaps they don't) then they need to think about how they approach it.

You may well have not the nail on the head. I know I am cynical but if someone can earn the money Tynal Mills has in t20 why the hell l would they want to slog in red ball cricket?

Why when your bam bam batting technique gets you fat pay days around the world and 100 international caps plus would you want to change that to suit red ball cricket?

The best test players recently are not known for one day batting. Cook, Strauss Trott Bell to some extent, none were awesome one day players renowned for 30 ball half centuries like Roy, Buttler, Stokes and Bairstow.

[Parkins left foot]

Dissapointing, but probably expected, performance this morning.

They won't change that many though Moeen needs to come out for his sake as much as Englands as he looks completely shot.

Can understand why they let Anderson say he was fit to play, but it came back to bite them - really should have had to play at least a 4 day game with a decent amount of bowling to prove that before bringing him back. We were playing with a lot less than a full team out there so it was never going to go that well.

Problem is that not many other names can be easily pencilled in to replace though assume that Archer (if he comes through the game he is due to play) is guaranteed a spot.

This could well be a long/dispiriting series to get through

[tredman]

You may well have not the nail on the head. I know I am cynical but if someone can earn the money Tynal Mills has in t20 why the hell l would they want to slog in red ball cricket?

Why when your bam bam batting technique gets you fat pay days around the world and 100 international caps plus would you want to change that to suit red ball cricket?

The best test players recently are not known for one day batting. Cook, Strauss Trott Bell to some extent, none were awesome one day players renowned for 30 ball half centuries like Roy, Buttler, Stokes and Bairstow.

There are players who've done well in both forms though - KP, Smith, Kholi etc. Buttler, prior to this game, looked like he had the aptitude for balanced games too.

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't think money comes into it, it's technique and attitude.

Roy I have some sympathy with and to a point Buttler too. They've spent years hardly seeing a red ball, they're always away with England (and in Buttler's case, the IPL) when the Championship is being played so when were they ever supposed to improve in that form of the game? Roy in particular would never have been seriously considered at the top of the order if we hadn't run through virtually every other candidate over the last few years.

[Tony Towner]

Central red ball contracts are worth £700k per year + bonuses + endorsements. I don't think we are going to see players walking away from that whilst we are allowing them to get a piece of the IPL action. The World Cup winners went through a hell of a lot emotionally it's a shame its been followed up by a Test series we care about, but I can give them some slack for it.

[Stan Hullis]

Burns
Roy
Root
Malan/Balance
Stokes
Foakes
Buttler
Woakes/Curran
Archer/Stone/Anderson (depending on who is fit)
Broad
Leach

I don't for a minute think we will make this many changes but that is how I would line up.

I like Bairstow but it isn't just his batting that is costing us but his keeping as well. I also don't think Roy is an opener but can't see him being abandoned this early.

[Carrotdude]

I’d bring Foakes in for Denly and see if taking the gloves off Jonny helps him out. I know he’s not had the best summer but he’s a battler and already proved he can do it for England and he’s by far the best wicket keeper in the country. Curran for Buttler too I reckon.

Burns
Roy
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Foakes
Woakes
Curran
Leach
Broad
Archer

[Cyber-_-man]

Root is the only batsman in this test who , technically, is good enough for test cricket. Burns nicks off and has a horrible stance, Toy wants to hit every ball, Denly plays round his front leg, buttler struggles against spin and to play straight Stokes keeps getting out swishing. I don't know who you pick but I would start with Northeast Foakes and Leach for Denly Moeen Bairstow with Sibley in the wings

[Cyber-_-man]

I’d bring Foakes in for Denly and see if taking the gloves off Jonny helps him out. I know he’s not had the best summer but he’s a battler and already proved he can do it for England and he’s by far the best wicket keeper in the country. Curran for Buttler too I reckon.

Burns
Roy
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Foakes
Woakes
Curran
Leach
Broad
Archer

Given our batting frailties that's too long a tail

[tredman]

Given our batting frailties that's too long a tail

Really? Curran is a good batsman, Broad is Broad and Leech just scored 90+

Edit - and I've only seen Jofra bat in the IPL, but he can be very good.

[Deutsch Wolf]

I had Woakes in at 6 in my team. I've no issue with him playing that high at all, he's better technically than pretty much anyone in the side outwith Root and Stokes.

Woakes-Buttler-Curran is a good lower middle order (well, in theory anyway). If you're asking 9/10/Jack to score runs then you have problems.

[Cyber-_-man]

I had Woakes in at 6 in my team. I've no issue with him playing that high at all, he's better technically than pretty much anyone in the side outwith Root and Stokes.

Woakes-Buttler-Curran is a good lower middle order (well, in theory anyway). If you're asking 9/10/Jack to score runs then you have problems.

It's great if your top 5 can bat in test cricket. Unfortunately they are showing that they can't at the moment lolz

[Cyber-_-man]

I had Woakes in at 6 in my team. I've no issue with him playing that high at all, he's better technically than pretty much anyone in the side outwith Root and Stokes.

Woakes-Buttler-Curran is a good lower middle order (well, in theory anyway). If you're asking 9/10/Jack to score runs then you have problems.

If that's the argument then bat Woakes at three. He us technically as good as others we bat there bar root. That allows buttler to stay Foakes to come in and Archer to replace Anderson. Given Denly batting form Woakes won't do worse and will bowl better. It's not as daft at it sounds. As a right hander he should play Lyon ok too.

[jd1981]

Was anybody at all surprised by what happened today? It’s a constant repeating theme. Biggest reason is when you’ve got such a flimsy top order it exposes your middle order fat to quickly.
Think we all know that this series could get very ugly especially if we lose at lords, even if we win there it’ll just delay an inevitable series loss.
Australia aren’t the side of the 90/00’s but they looked far more assured under pressure. The fact that they were 122/8, 90 runs behind on first innings and minus 16/3 at one point and still won by 251 runs is freighting.
Even with Anderson unfit that situation shouldn’t arise.
How do we get out of this frankly I can’t think of any solutions, just to add Australia were able to omit Starc from their side and still batter us.

[Cyber-_-man]

Was anybody at all surprised by what happened today? It’s a constant repeating theme. Biggest reason is when you’ve got such a flimsy top order it exposes your middle order fat to quickly.
Think we all know that this series could get very ugly especially if we lose at lords, even if we win there it’ll just delay an inevitable series loss.
Australia aren’t the side of the 90/00’s but they looked far more assured under pressure. The fact that they were 122/8, 90 runs behind on first innings and minus 16/3 at one point and still won by 251 runs is freighting.
Even with Anderson unfit that situation shouldn’t arise.
How do we get out of this frankly I can’t think of any solutions, just to add Australia were able to omit Starc from their side and still batter us.

You are right friend, but people like us have been saying this foir a few years now. At least its not us in denial!

[Deutsch Wolf]

We haven't lost a home series since 2014 (which was a two Test affair, under a different coach, and fairly weird as Sri Lanka hung on by one wicket in the first game and we lost with two balls to go in the second one), I don't think predictions of doom were really on.

We were in a strong position at least twice here, WinViz had us at over a 70% chance to win at one point.

We played with 10 men for all bar seven overs.

Yes, we messed it up and the margin looks very poor indeed. Several players have big question marks hanging over them. But just because you predict we'll lose every time doesn't make you the oracle when we do

[Cyber-_-man]

We haven't lost a home series since 2014 (which was a two Test affair, under a different coach, and fairly weird as Sri Lanka hung on by one wicket in the first game and we lost with two balls to go in the second one), I don't think predictions of doom were really on.

We were in a strong position at least twice here, WinViz had us at over a 70% chance to win at one point.

We played with 10 men for all bar seven overs.

Yes, we messed it up and the margin looks very poor indeed. Several players have big question marks hanging over them. But just because you predict we'll lose every time doesn't make you the oracle when we do

Fuck sake

I don't predict we will lose every time far from it. You come in with your sanctimonious shit ridiculing barmy Cyber who just happens to have called England test cricket pretty accurately for a couple of years and then you take a cheap shot like this ? Fuck me. We have been bloody awful in the test batting department for a while unless the pitch is concrete. I respect your opinion but to have a po at me after this test match is ridiculous.

In test matches, if the ball does anything we are fucked.

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not having a pop at you. Cool your jets.

[Cyber-_-man]

I'm not having a pop at you. Cool your jets.

Ok. Done . pssssssssssshhhhhh.

[Deutsch Wolf]

The point is (and I'm not having a go at you...) is that if this has all been an accident waiting to happen - and I fully agree with you that our batting is dismal - then it's taken a bloody long time to come around...

As rubbish as we were on the final two days in particular, who knows what happens if we have Jimmy. It's a big ask to start operating without your best bowler for virtually an entire game. Might have lost anyway but highly unlikely to be that kind of level of defeat.

Doesn't excuse FIVE players (Roy, Denly, Buttler, Bairstow and Moeen) from having displays that range from 3/10 to a generous 1/10 for turning up.

[Cyber-_-man]

The point is (and I'm not having a go at you...) is that if this has all been an accident waiting to happen - and I fully agree with you that our batting is dismal - then it's taken a bloody long time to come around...

As rubbish as we were on the final two days in particular, who knows what happens if we have Jimmy. It's a big ask to start operating without your best bowler for virtually an entire game. Might have lost anyway but highly unlikely to be that kind of level of defeat.

Doesn't excuse FIVE players (Roy, Denly, Buttler, Bairstow and Moeen) from having displays that range from 3/10 to a generous 1/10 for turning up.

Agreed. But for me two of those should not have even been playing. We, as fans see it. Why don't selectors?

[Cyber-_-man]

The state of these highlights.

So much for a moribund dead pitch. Lyon and Cummins seemed to extract turn , pace and bounce between them and we had no answer. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/49238389

[Dinowolf]

The pitch at Edgbaston, after the first 2 sessions on day 1, turned into a very Australian type pitch with no lateral movement and becoming very dry.

It suited the Aussie seam bowlers, as soon as they got their length right, with their extra pace, and became very hard work for Englands' seamers who were all very samey and unable to get any movement from it at all.

The ball started to turn on this dry pitch from day 2 and the Aussie spinner showed good control in England's 1st innings and superb control in their 2nd, while England's spinner showed a marked lack of control, apart from the odd ball.

While I have to admit that Australia outplayed us in their bowling and eventually their batting ( Smith was exceptional ), it's clear that we need a better English type pitch with grass on it for the upcoming Tests, a bowler with genuine pace, a spinner with good control and better overall selection.

The selectors have a lot to answer for and need to either up their game or resign and the quicker the head coach is replaced for someone who knows something about red-ball cricket, the better it will be for our side.

[tredman]

So the coach and the selectors are to blame? There's also one other who has a major role in who plays and how we play, can't quite put my finger on his name. Perhaps its his fault too?

[SLA]

So the coach and the selectors are to blame? There's also one other who has a major role in who plays and how we play, can't quite put my finger on his name. Perhaps its his fault too?

Is it Kevin Thelwell?

[tredman]

Is it Kevin Thelwell?

It's always Kevin Thelwell's fault.

[Johnny75]

So the coach and the selectors are to blame? There's also one other who has a major role in who plays and how we play, can't quite put my finger on his name. Perhaps its his fault too?

Can't be he's the best player. Why would your best player be at fault?

[SLA]

Our most influential player (or best if you like) has just been ruled out for the 2nd test and maybe the whole series.

[BillyDee]

Are you saying we need to get to the root of the problem...

[Dinowolf]

There are many areas where some blame can be apportioned but I'll use the analogy of Wolves.

Look at the difference Nuno and his coaches have made to Wolves. That's what needs to happen with England Test cricket. People who know what they're doing.

I think Ashley Giles said the other week that we have concentrated on white ball cricket and built it up brilliantly, but we now need to do the same for our red ball cricket, with the help of the Counties.