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Thread: Jeremy Corbyn

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by machin05 View Post
    Do you politically savvy types on here think there will be a swell in Green Party voters should one of the centre-right Tory apologists become Labour leader?

    I do. I think the defeat of Corbyn might be seen as the last hurrah for any left leaning Labour supporters and they'll go elsewhere. If Corbyn wins I think the party will split and we'll see the formation of some sort of SDP.
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hereford Wolf View Post
    Of course the Tory's are very clever. They included the minimum wage rise in the Welfare Bill, so even though it will put 1000's of families into more poverty, if Labour voted against it then Osbourne will say they voted against increasing the minimum wage.

    Such is politics.
    Any vaguely competent Labour leader could expose that narrative as bollocks.

  3. #33
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    I already voted Green in the election because of my dissatisfaction with Miliband and his lukewarm agenda. Labour won't be getting my vote until they provide a credible alternative, Harman is a disgrace.
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  4. #34
    If the media, combined with the two Tory and the one Blairite candidate keep ramping up the rhetoric of fear maybe they should just call an end to the farce and announce a one-party state.

    The attacks on Corbyn from the greasy pole career politicians are a disgrace.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdgeOfTheAlps View Post

    The attacks on Corbyn from the greasy pole career politicians are a disgrace.
    Anyone else noticed how none of his opponents have offered any critique of his policies? We hear lots about Corbyn being a 'disaster', 'lurching to the left' and 'unelectable' but I've yet to hear critique of his plans and any alternatives.

    I read his policy document the other day (rock n' roll through and through) and its eminently reasonable. Not the Trotskyite blueprint for war and famine much of the media (and Labour MPs) would have you believe.
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    Anyone else noticed how none of his opponents have offered any critique of his policies? We hear lots about Corbyn being a 'disaster', 'lurching to the left' and 'unelectable' but I've yet to hear critique of his plans and any alternatives.

    I read his policy document the other day (rock n' roll through and through) and its eminently reasonable. Not the Trotskyite blueprint for war and famine much of the media (and Labour MPs) would have you believe.
    Listening to 5live the other day with Corbyn interviewed by Nicky Campbell on the Welfare bill. When Corbyn debated each point with good reason Campbell quickly switched the debate to Nuclear weapons. Not sure if Campbell had the right wing agenda or someone in his ear.
    In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.

  7. #37
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    Conflict drives audience. Theres no mileage in talking about subjects where the argument being made is sane and sensible and hard to counter.

  8. #38
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    It should have been shouted from the roof tops.

    Comments by some Labour leadership contenders that the last Labour Government may have borrowed too much or even over-spent before the 2008 global financial crisis raise fundamental questions about the Party’s ability to project a winning economic programme for the future.

    They also play to the Tory and media agenda by falsifying Labour’s pre-crisis record, fail to put Labour’s rather modest 2006 and 2007 budget deficits into context, and don’t acknowledge the mammoth effort required to deal with the biggest financial crisis since the 1930s and its impact on UK national debt and budget deficits.

    By June 2007, when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, Britain had enjoyed under Labour a record ten years of continuous economic growth, low inflation, low interest rates, record employment, big cuts in child, pensioner and working poverty, dramatic reductions in NHS waiting times, record infrastructure investment, and improved living standards.

    No-one was especially worried about the level of public spending or the size of Britain’s budget deficit. UK national debt had fallen from 42 per cent of GDP under the Tories in 1997 to 38 per cent in 2007 – below that of France, Germany, the USA, Italy or Japan. The budget deficit was well within the three per cent limit of GDP set by the EU Stability and Growth Pact. In September 2007 even David Cameron publicly pledged to match Labour’s spending plans up to 2010.

    In financial markets the FTSE 100 share price index had hit a six year high, showing optimism about Britain’s economic prospects under Labour. Bank credit default swaps – the cost of insuring bank loans against the risk of borrowers failing to repay – had reached an historic low, another sign of real confidence in Britain’s future.

    The consensus was that the UK economy was in good shape and its prospects looked bright, with lead responsibility for keeping the economy stable through monetary policy handed over to an independent Bank of England.

    Of course subsequent events proved that both Labour Ministers and Tory Shadow Ministers were wrong to believe both that we had put an end to boom and bust and that light touch regulation was enough to ensure financial stability. But very few commentators said so at the time.

    There was no clamour for public spending cuts. That only came after the autumn 2008 financial crisis which the Tories seized on with their Big Deceit that ‘overspending’ by Labour had left the country with mountainous levels of national debt and a huge budget deficit.

    The truth is Britain’s 2007 budget deficit of 39 billion or 2.7 per cent of GDP was dwarfed by the colossal cost of subsequent state support to save Britain’s failing banks which by 2009 was equivalent to some 90 per cent of GDP.

    The cost to UK taxpayers of bailing out Britain’s banks had peaked at 133 billion in cash outlays alone. But by 2012 the potential total taxpayer liability including cash outlays, government guarantees and Bank of England support had exceeded 1160 billion or ten times the annual cost of the NHS.

    By tackling the banking crisis and the recession that it provoked Labour solved a private sector financial problem but at the price of transforming it into a public sector fiscal one as taxpayers picked up the huge bill from reckless bankers. Consequently the UK debt to GDP ratio more than doubled from 37 per cent in 2007-08 to 80 per cent in 2014-15. Significant cuts in public spending to produce something a bit lower on the budget deficit scale in 2007 would have been totally irrelevant to the stratospheric impact of the crisis or how the last Labour government was able to manage it.

    So my questions to Labour leadership contenders are these:

    -Surely you agree that rebuilding Labour’s reputation for sound economic management makes it essential to correct the Tory Big Deceit, about Labour ‘over spending’?

    -Do you accept 200 years of economic experience demonstrates that the best way to bring down the debt burden is to encourage the economy to grow, not to slash public spending? Surely growth not still more austerity is the answer?

    -Instead of targeting a budget surplus surely what is needed is sufficient public and private investment to establish the quality infrastructure, the millions of new houses, the high skills and the cutting-edge technology to sustain a competitive productive economy?

    -Surely that is better than copying current Tory policy of building UK prosperity upon a consumerist chimera of high personal debt, artificially inflated housing assets and a disastrous trade gap?

    -Do you also agree that Labour cannot back Osborne’s Victorian idea for permanent budget surpluses except during recessions? Such pre-Keynesian neoliberal dogma would mean a constant squeeze on public spending after tax cuts that deliberately put a budget surplus beyond reach. Surely it is Osborne’s equivalent of the Tea Party ‘starve the beast’ strategy in the USA, aimed at shrinking the state for dogmatically political, not soundly economic, reasons?

    Well said Peter Hain.

    http://labourlist.org/2015/07/a-winn...n-the-economy/
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  9. #39
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    The Corbyn bandwagon rolls on. It seems a lot of people are joining the Labour Party in order to support him. And Alex Salmond has backed him. Meanwhile John Mann has called for the leadership election to be halted.

  10. #40
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    Allegedy it's because those signing up at 3 a pop are Tories who know that Corbyn as a Labour Leader will make them unelectable in 2020, although I respect the view of TSB and others that have said that being true to your ideals is more important than being in power. Bookies still only have him as 3rd favourite though, if he were to win I'd think the PLP would find a way of forcing him out before 2020 though

  11. #41
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    I also respect TSB's view. But for those who want the Conservative Government out of office in 2020, then surely they need a strong Labour Party united behind a strong leader. And in my opinion, I am not sure any of the four candidates meet that criteria.

  12. #42
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    I shall be voting for Jeremy Corbyn. He is the only Socialist amongst the candidates for leadership. I want 'our' Labour Party back. I do not want a Labour Party that supports (unnecessary) austerity, has a carnal affair with bankers and big businesses and is 'Tory-lite' when it comes to policies. We need a real alternative to this evil and Jeremy will provide that.
    Wales is not like California in any way.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankMunro-371 View Post
    I also respect TSB's view. But for those who want the Conservative Government out of office in 2020, then surely they need a strong Labour Party united behind a strong leader. And in my opinion, I am not sure any of the four candidates meet that criteria.
    There's no point getting rid of the Tories if you replace them with more of the same.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage View Post
    There's no point getting rid of the Tories if you replace them with more of the same.

    So what do Labour do then? If Corbyn is the leader they will not win the election. Surely Labour do not want to spend years and years in opposition?

  15. #45
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    They can win under Corbyn. His policies are actually very popular with the electorate. Rail renationalisation, for example.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage View Post
    They can win under Corbyn. His policies are actually very popular with the electorate. Rail renationalisation, for example.
    Sorry but I must disagree. If Corbyn is leader you will end up with another SDP style situation. The party would be split in two. Also when was the last time that Labour won power under a left wing leader?

  17. #47
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    If the blairites wish to leave then good riddance.

  18. #48
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    Since Attlee won the general election in 1945, only two Labour leaders have taken Labour from opposition to Government. They were Wilson and Blair. And both were to the right of the party, so I am sorry but I cannot quite understand why you think that Corbyn could do so.

  19. #49
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    I dont know if he can - only time will tell.

    But one thing I do thing that a political system that offers voters a choice between Tory and Tory-lite is failing the electorate. There should always be place at the table for a dissenting voice.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage View Post
    I dont know if he can - only time will tell.

    But one thing I do thing that a political system that offers voters a choice between Tory and Tory-lite is failing the electorate. There should always be place at the table for a dissenting voice.
    Fair comment. And while I do not agree with Corbyn's views, at least he has stuck to his principals. And whether he wins or not, I feel sure he will remain faithful to his ideals.

  21. #51
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    The electorate only want Tory or Tory lite though. Blair was exactly that which is why he got in. For me, having a watered down centrist party is better than full blown Tory and what they can bring. The lack of an electable opposition will make their policies harder right and hit those that can't take it even harder.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Towner View Post
    The electorate only want Tory or Tory lite though.
    Might not be the case once we reach 10 years of these jokers and their non-existent economics.
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  23. #53
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    Then the electorate need re-educating.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by machin05 View Post
    Do you politically savvy types on here think there will be a swell in Green Party voters should one of the centre-right Tory apologists become Labour leader?
    If there was a representative voting system I'd say yes. As there isn't I'd hazard apathy will rule the day as the total votes Green and UKIP got in May brought into sharp focus how limited they are, especially if they are in safe seats.

  25. #55
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    Kinnock couldn't win after 13 years of Tory 11 of which were Thatcher, Essex man / Worcester woman will only vote Labour if they feel they are voting for a Labour Party that represents them and that isn't hard(ish) left. Hardening the vote in already staunch Labour areas is pointless under FPTP. Corbyn actually represents my views closer than any of the other candidates, but the best way to ensure Tory policies aren't enforced is for them to not be in power, I recognise that as principled as it may be this won't happen under Corbyn. He won't win anyway because of second preference votes.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage View Post
    Then the electorate need re-educating.
    Who will do this then? The Sun have already rediscovered the term Loony Left

  27. #57
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    This is what your up against, politically clueless.

    Rick Bywater, a 38-year-old lab technician from Morley, West Yorkshire , said: “Everything about Jeremy Corbyn is negative.

    "He just wants to control people and have his own way.

    “He makes everyone around here very angry and he’s not very well liked because he’s not interested in doing anything for us.”

    Pharmacy worker Paul Morris, 45, also from Morley , said: “I don’t agree with him – I don’t agree with anything that he says.

    “It comes across that the Labour Party don’t really know what they’re doing.”

    NHS worker Carol O’Brien, 56, from Leeds , said: “I have to be honest and say that I don’t know much about his policies but all I’ve heard is that he’s bad news.”

    Dad-to-three Kelvin Ayr, 56, of Solihull, West Midlands, said: “I think it appears as if Jeremy Corbyn is going back too Far Left with Labour.

    “I think that is how he has come across.”

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-think-6139518
    In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.

  28. #58
    I don't think Labour can win in 2020 under any leader. The Tories will push through the boundary changes which disadvantage Labour and the chances of eating into SNP in Scotland to any great degree are slim. Even if the right wing of the Labour Party split away the outcome in 2020 is either another Tory majority or an anti-Tory coalition. I would expect a Jeremy Corbyn led Labour Party to be the biggest coalition party in such a scenario heavily supported by SNP with the Lib Dems and any ex-Labour turncoats fairly minor members of such a coalition.

    Personally, I don't think there will be a huge breakaway from Labour - if they set up a new party they would face opposition from both Labour and the Lib Dems and given that most of those who would leave are the very same who are tarnished with Blair's legacy they would mount very little opposition. I think they would sit tight and look to external forces to moderate what they perceive to be left wing policies.
    No.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage View Post
    Then the electorate need re-educating.
    Damn that pesky democracy eh vis?

    I like Corbyn personally, getting someone even more out of touch than ed milliband in looked a tough call but it looks like they might manage it - Come on Jezza!

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage View Post
    Then the electorate need re-educating.
    A tad Orwellian don't you think? If anything the electorate needs to think for itself. Better representation of the electorate in parliament might help. I conceed that as a tory voter last time.

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