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Thread: Shamima Begum

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Saturday Boy View Post
    The world has become black and white, there are no longer shades of grey. There are good guys and bad guys and nothing in between, like we’re living some Hollywood movie.

    To understand why someone does something does not mean you condone it. To try and understand it does not mean you support it.

    I want us to know what caused this young girl to be so disaffected with her life or excited by ISIS that she would leave behind her friends and family to effectively give away her body and her mind. If we choose not to try and understand, how can we prevent it from happening again.

    I can understand why Irish men and women (and children) resorted to violence in Northern Ireland and beyond. I don’t condone it, it was never the solution, but I can understand it. I can understand why black South Africans turned to violence. I can understand why Tommy Robinson exists.

    We are in a perpetual state of conflict worldwide, there is always a war somewhere for some reason but anti-war rhetoric is unpatriotic, challenging the good guy/bad guy rhetoric is just being a snow flake.

    This woman needs to be held responsible by the country that is responsible for her. If we choose not to engage then we will choose to disengage from every similar situation. That should not be who we are.
    Superb post!
    I have family who stood alongside De Valeira back in the day, but to compare them with the IRA of 1974, is just simply nonsense, to any true Irishman there is not , and never will be, any grounds for comparison.
    This girl was 15 when she ended up in a religious cult. How clever and worldly wise were you , at 15?
    "Never enter into a battle of wits, with an unarmed man"

  2. #122
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    ince 2012, the UK has allowed about 400 British members of Islamic State and Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, once al-Qaeda’s offshoot in Syria, to return home. The majority of them have been male fighters. That Mr Javid has now chosen in public to revoke the citizenship of a young woman from Bethnal Green who was indoctrinated by Isis as a minor is an opportunistic decision made purely to pander to national mood, and has no foot in national security considerations.
    Call me cynical

    NONE of this would have happened if she had just snuck back in. But no for some reason she gives an interview and it sells papers and the debate starts. The reason the other 400 came back in was because they did not create a shit storm. As you sow so shall you reap.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber-_-man View Post
    Call me cynical

    NONE of this would have happened if she had just snuck back in. But no for some reason she gives an interview and it sells papers and the debate starts. The reason the other 400 came back in was because they did not create a shit storm. As you sow so shall you reap.
    Guessing she no longer has a passport to just sneak back in so go public as they probably expect the Government to deny a renewal and hope to keep it quiet. So she gets on the front foot knowing at the end of it she will get back in.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber-_-man View Post
    Call me cynical

    NONE of this would have happened if she had just snuck back in. But no for some reason she gives an interview and it sells papers and the debate starts. The reason the other 400 came back in was because they did not create a shit storm. As you sow so shall you reap.
    Whoever wrote the Times article, interviewed her on site, and clearly suggests that the influence of ISIS that she has been subject to since she was radicalised at the age of 15, are as powerfully present right now as then. But, she is a British citizen and whether i want to slap her silly or not, she has the right to be brought home, and a fair trial, if only for treason as many are suggesting. her child has rights too remember.
    "Never enter into a battle of wits, with an unarmed man"

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlosmacwolf View Post
    Whoever wrote the Times article, interviewed her on site, and clearly suggests that the influence of ISIS that she has been subject to since she was radicalised at the age of 15, are as powerfully present right now as then. But, she is a British citizen and whether i want to slap her silly or not, she has the right to be brought home, and a fair trial, if only for treason as many are suggesting. her child has rights too remember.
    Oh yes I get all that. I also was the first advocate on here to ask what offence if any she has committed. She needs that to even get to a fair trial. My worry is that she has done nothing substantially illegal and we as a country will have to subsidise giving her a complete new identity if she comes back and walks. That , naturally , sticks a bit in my craw. I would love it were it so simple as bring her home , try her and accept the verdict. It so clearly is so much more than that.
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  6. #126
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    Regardless of how this has been engineered by her - she is still a British citizen

    She has no real connection with Bangladesh (apart from her parents originally being from there) & have seen some reports saying that she can go to Holland as married a Dutch citizen, though pretty sure that that is not recognised in Dutch law. Plus her baby is clearly British.

    This is an abrogation of our responsibilities to the rest of the World - we really can't just palm off our difficult issues elsewhere whenever it suits us to just appease publicised opinion.

    We bring her back & deal with it through the Security Services & Court System. From what has been reported she was in support of the ISIS regime without necessarily having physically taking part in any actual atrocities, but would hope that we have laws to deal with that.
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkins left foot View Post
    Regardless of how this has been engineered by her - she is still a British citizen

    She has no real connection with Bangladesh (apart from her parents originally being from there) & have seen some reports saying that she can go to Holland as married a Dutch citizen, though pretty sure that that is not recognised in Dutch law. Plus her baby is clearly British.

    This is an abrogation of our responsibilities to the rest of the World - we really can't just palm off our difficult issues elsewhere whenever it suits us to just appease publicised opinion.

    We bring her back & deal with it through the Security Services & Court System. From what has been reported she was in support of the ISIS regime without necessarily having physically taking part in any actual atrocities, but would hope that we have laws to deal with that.
    IS THE RIGHT ANSWER in an ideal world. I dont think we have the offences to prosecute. May be wrong.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber-_-man View Post
    IS THE RIGHT ANSWER in an ideal world. I dont think we have the offences to prosecute. May be wrong.
    No agree that we may not have the offences to put her inside for any length of time (which certain elements of public? opinion would want), but she will be on a security service 'watch list' for a fair amount of time anyway (hopefully)
    This year we are going to break up the big 6 clubs (instead of just Arsenal)

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkins left foot View Post
    No agree that we may not have the offences to put her inside for any length of time (which certain elements of public? opinion would want), but she will be on a security service 'watch list' for a fair amount of time anyway (hopefully)
    The issue I have is how do we protect her? She is public enemy number one and will require protection when released if she is found guilty of anything and probably a whole new identity, not to mention the knock on effect for the rest of her family.
    The easist solution was her not coming back , but that option is increasingly unlikely. The biggest positive would be if she wore a full veil and would be less likely to be recognised aspecially if she re-located to a large muslim community with the UK. But a you know, there are tensions between those communities and the police and security services already. They really are not going to want a protection team "on their patch" 24/7.

    Its a really difficult sitiation. I have zero sympathy for her. I have every sympathy for her child and I have a humantarian hope that the right outcome happens.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber-_-man View Post
    The issue I have is how do we protect her? She is public enemy number one and will require protection when released if she is found guilty of anything and probably a whole new identity, not to mention the knock on effect for the rest of her family.
    The easist solution was her not coming back , but that option is increasingly unlikely. The biggest positive would be if she wore a full veil and would be less likely to be recognised aspecially if she re-located to a large muslim community with the UK. But a you know, there are tensions between those communities and the police and security services already. They really are not going to want a protection team "on their patch" 24/7.

    Its a really difficult sitiation. I have zero sympathy for her. I have every sympathy for her child and I have a humantarian hope that the right outcome happens.
    In reality this is a PR disaster for the Government (though they are not noted for getting things right) - chosen the wrong option every time they have been asked to make a decision.

    OK it was her choice to go public re a return to the UK which we couldn't control, but we should have just said 'yes' then allowed the legal system to deal with the fallout.
    This year we are going to break up the big 6 clubs (instead of just Arsenal)

  11. #131
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    Fuck this country, honestly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47386100

    "Just a bit of childish fun for all the family, that's all."
    "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langers View Post
    Fuck this country, honestly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47386100

    "Just a bit of childish fun for all the family, that's all."
    You just wonder what is in some people's minds really (far too often as well!!)
    This year we are going to break up the big 6 clubs (instead of just Arsenal)

  13. #133
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    Reports are circulating that her son has passed away. Dreadful news.

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    Yeah, looks like the reports weren't checked
    https://twitter.com/adharves/status/...964008448?s=19
    )

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    The joy and comments on social media that it's provoked is truly sickening
    See post #5516 of ex wolf watch to find out why in my house,i hate Kenny Miller

  16. #136
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    ISIS isn't the exclusive home of cuntery. Who knew?
    There are only two man-made objects that can be seen from space.

    1. The Great Wall of China

    2. Low Hill at Christmas

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniffer Grouse View Post
    Reports are circulating that her son has passed away. Dreadful news.
    Quote Originally Posted by tredman View Post
    Yeah, looks like the reports weren't checked
    https://twitter.com/adharves/status/...964008448?s=19
    BBC radio now reporting that the baby has died
    This year we are going to break up the big 6 clubs (instead of just Arsenal)

  18. #138
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    Kinda confused how hunt and javid can say it isn't safe to send consular or government staff out to offer support, but it seems to be safe enough for a newscorp staff team to go out to the camp and interview her, film it, record it set the lights, sound, cameras etc. It's also safe enough for all the NGO's and their staff to work there too.

    Something is inconsistent here.
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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonjelly View Post
    Kinda confused how hunt and javid can say it isn't safe to send consular or government staff out to offer support, but it seems to be safe enough for a newscorp staff team to go out to the camp and interview her, film it, record it set the lights, sound, cameras etc. It's also safe enough for all the NGO's and their staff to work there too.

    Something is inconsistent here.
    To be fair the media often send themselves to places that aren’t safe.

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    Kate Adie made a career out of doing it
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    Yeah but the camera operator and sound technician never get a mention.

  22. #142
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    Just restore her citizenship and put her and anybody else in a similar situation on trial. She is about as misguided as Lord Haw Haw was (and they hung him).

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    Even if she regains her citizenship, gets tried and does her time, she's going to have a target on her back for the rest of her life in this country.

  24. #144
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    Maybe in danger for a couple of years,then the public will be voting for her to do a challenge on I'm a celebrity,or she'll appear on celebrity bake off something like that
    See post #5516 of ex wolf watch to find out why in my house,i hate Kenny Miller

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keef View Post
    Maybe in danger for a couple of years,then the public will be voting for her to do a challenge on I'm a celebrity,or she'll appear on celebrity bake off something like that

  26. #146
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    Legal Aid? Wonder which lawyers will be trousering that?

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    You do know that doing purely legal aid work is basically working on the breadline? There is bugger all money in it and most legal aid lawyers do it for reasons other than personal enrichment?
    There are only two man-made objects that can be seen from space.

    1. The Great Wall of China

    2. Low Hill at Christmas

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddingtonwolf View Post
    You do know that doing purely legal aid work is basically working on the breadline? There is bugger all money in it and most legal aid lawyers do it for reasons other than personal enrichment?
    Longer-tables.jpg

    £50-70 an hour is none too shabby , according to this table of legal aid fees? Thats 4-600 a day or 2-3 grand a week. Sorry if my sympathies for lawyers put them well below Nurses, Firefighters, soldiers, Teachers, Police officers in the list of trades that need a pay increase.
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  29. #149
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    That goes to the firm not the lawyer. And it is limited on hours per case at a level MILES below the time needed to do a case properly. If you do purely legal aid work you take home a lot less than a teacher.
    There are only two man-made objects that can be seen from space.

    1. The Great Wall of China

    2. Low Hill at Christmas

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddingtonwolf View Post
    That goes to the firm not the lawyer. And it is limited on hours per case at a level MILES below the time needed to do a case properly. If you do purely legal aid work you take home a lot less than a teacher.
    Nope , still not feeling that sympathitic to lawyers. newly qualified teacher starts at 23.5 k.Newly qualified solicitor 25-40k. I agree that legal aid does not pay great but then nor does NHS dentists. I dont know a private firm that is purely run on legal aid but I also dont know a private dentist that is purely NHS. An NHS dentist is 38k to 83k so again I dont have much sympathy for them in my "needs a pay rise" list

    I know plenty of teachers on under 25k. I know plenty of police officers under 25k. I know firefighters under 25k, I know soldiers on under 25k soI am afraid even with the argument of my Learned friend, Lawyers / solicitors still earn enough.
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