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Thread: Election Thread

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hark View Post
    I don't disagree. I just don't think giving away stuff that most people (a) can well afford to buy and (b) don't really need is the best use of that investment. It's like giving every family a new Mercedes because their five-year-old Ford Focus isn't so quick or so comfy.
    You also have to consider the potential for outages when the nationalised outreach goes on strike. In effect the reciprocant may end up paying more in tax for the service than currently. Plus, factor in the compensation for those whose pensions etc are linked to a company whose value will go through the floor.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papper View Post
    You also have to consider the potential for outages when the nationalised outreach goes on strike. In effect the reciprocant may end up paying more in tax for the service than currently. Plus, factor in the compensation for those whose pensions etc are linked to a company whose value will go through the floor.
    That's a weird one. Workers at private companies go on strike .

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant Pyjamas View Post
    That's a weird one. Workers at private companies go on strike .
    Quite. The railworkers are good at it.

  4. #244
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    So Corbyn gets interviewed by Marr and still won't tell us whether he wants to remain IN or OUT of the EU - his party will allow the electorate to decide again. At least Swinson has said she will cancel Brexit. They are all attempting to unite the population by telling 17.4 million of them that they didn't know what they were voting for and must try again.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papper View Post
    So Corbyn gets interviewed by Marr and still won't tell us whether he wants to remain IN or OUT of the EU - his party will allow the electorate to decide again. At least Swinson has said she will cancel Brexit. They are all attempting to unite the population by telling 17.4 million of them that they didn't know what they were voting for and must try again.
    The only sensible option left despite the media efforts to portray it as quantum theory. Lib Dems are totally ignoring the referendum and pretending it never happened and the Tories want the no deal unicorn. A second vote is all remainers were crying for the last 3 years and now they have a chance to vote for it. It isn't a simple rerun as it'll be Remain v some sort of deal. The problem with the first vote was that there were 17.4m different Brexits.
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    The only sensible option left despite the media efforts to portray it as quantum theory. Lib Dems are totally ignoring the referendum and pretending it never happened and the Tories want the no deal unicorn. A second vote is all remainers were crying for the last 3 years and now they have a chance to vote for it. It isn't a simple rerun as it'll be Remain v some sort of deal. The problem with the first vote was that there were 17.4m different Brexits.
    I don't agree with the Libs but at least there is a transparency. At least Corbyn could spell out clearly what IN or OUT means - in terms of single market, customs union etc. My personal Brexit was as a result of being told by Dave and Gideon that it was a once in a generation vote that meant us leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ, The Single market and the customs union.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papper View Post
    I don't agree with the Libs but at least there is a transparency. At least Corbyn could spell out clearly what IN or OUT means - in terms of single market, customs union etc. My personal Brexit was as a result of being told by Dave and Gideon that it was a once in a generation vote that meant us leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ, The Single market and the customs union.
    Strange that you believed the opinion of the people you voted against rather than the people campaigning for the result you wanted.
    If you see a Possum, try to kill it, 'kay, it's not a pet.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARKakaJIM View Post
    Strange that you believed the opinion of the people you voted against rather than the people campaigning for the result you wanted.
    Who did I vote against?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn2hSVfqtYc

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredman View Post
    why? society is changing, becoming more fragmented and with the advent of AI and robotics there will be less and less need for large numbers of people gathering on one place to work. What better way of preparing for the future by improving connectivity.



    Giving it away for free isnít (or shouldnít) be the central tenant of the policy - providing genuine properly centrally planned infrastructure for the future is.
    Giving it away for free is the only part I'm taking issue with.
    These are the days, my friend

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Saturday Boy View Post
    I think when so many of our population are on "in work" benefits the idea that it is affordable for everyone is a bit if a reach.

    Government does not have a finite amount of money either - if you want to explore that line of reason governments spend more than they take in more often than not - Labour are suggesting that this (and other investments) can be made by borrowing which is pretty much how every government invests in infrastructure.
    I didn't say affordable for everyone, I said most. Apparently 95% of UK households can afford an internet connection at present. (LINK) And I didn't say that government spending was constrained by government receipts, but there is clearly a limit to spending, if only in that the markets would eventually refuse to lend to an administration that was clearly trying to borrow more than could ever be repaid. If not, parties would just promise free everything to everybody.
    These are the days, my friend

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hark View Post
    Giving it away for free is the only part I'm taking issue with.
    The free part is a minor part of the investment though. Itís the sort of thing which would probably get changed over the years - or maybe give people 20mbs free and charge for higher tiers.
    )

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hark View Post
    I didn't say affordable for everyone, I said most. Apparently 95% of UK households can afford an internet connection at present. (LINK) And I didn't say that government spending was constrained by government receipts, but there is clearly a limit to spending, if only in that the markets would eventually refuse to lend to an administration that was clearly trying to borrow more than could ever be repaid. If not, parties would just promise free everything to everybody.
    Moody has downgraded the UK twice since 2013 (and that was in times of Austerity). Can you imagine the levels of borrowing required to pay for the current spending plans? Nearly £50 Billion a year goes from the taxpayer just to fund the interest on the national debt.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredman View Post
    The free part is a minor part of the investment though. It’s the sort of thing which would probably get changed over the years - or maybe give people 20mbs free and charge for higher tiers.
    That makes more sense. And those who can afford better can subsidise that free basic provision. I guess that would mean rolling out FTTC (since there wouldn't be much point limiting universal FTTP to 20Mbs) and then people paying to upgrade to FTTP, which would also ameliorate the investment cost.
    These are the days, my friend

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hark View Post
    That makes more sense. And those who can afford better can subsidise that free basic provision. I guess that would mean rolling out FTTC (since there wouldn't be much point limiting universal FTTP to 20Mbs) and then people paying to upgrade to FTTP, which would also ameliorate the investment cost.
    FTTC is pretty much universal already, at least in urban areas.
    )

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papper View Post
    The bloke you just quoted, he campaigned for remain remember.
    If you see a Possum, try to kill it, 'kay, it's not a pet.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Papper View Post
    I don't agree with the Libs but at least there is a transparency. At least Corbyn could spell out clearly what IN or OUT means - in terms of single market, customs union etc. My personal Brexit was as a result of being told by Dave and Gideon that it was a once in a generation vote that meant us leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ, The Single market and the customs union.
    On Marr this morning Corbyn said that any deal Labour would agree included access to the single market and a customs union. How is that not spelt out clearly?

    The Labour policy on Brexit is one I would expect the leader to follow and that is a policy for a second referendum - I don't understand why the opinion of one man is so important to everyone. Or maybe I do, leavers can say he is a remainer and remainers can say he is a leaver. It is just political.
    No.

  17. #257
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    I don't think he's been clear at all at any point on Brexit. His deal is something the EU would have to agree on and there is no cohesive statement either way on when that would happen.

    It's unicorn stuff all round, apart from the Lib Dems who would bin it off completely.

    To get some of these nationisation bills through we'd have to leave the EU and single market or Labour would fall foul of competition rules.

    This to me is why their policy is a muddle.
    Nothing to see here...... can't offend sensitive souls.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny75 View Post

    To get some of these nationisation bills through we'd have to leave the EU and single market or Labour would fall foul of competition rules.
    .
    That's been debunked several times
    )

  19. #259
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    I just want to come back to one point that Papper has made that I think actually has some serious merit for debate.

    We have first past the post. We have an electoral registration system that doesn't make it an obligation to turn out to vote (the States tries to do this but still falls short). We celebrate a 70% turnout as huge, but that still means 30% of the voting population can't be arsed to use their right to participate in the election decision.

    We have the party in the lead at the polls at the moment getting 42% in the most optimistic poll for them. So 42% of 70% is basically 29.4% of the voting public are in favour of that party. It's not much of a mandate, is it?
    I'm looking California

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  20. #260
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    When they were negotiating the coalition The Lib Dems had an opportunity to force the Conservatives to provide a referendum offering meaningful PR. They botched it by allowing such a watered down iteration which would have made such minimal difference to render it pointless.

    FPTP suppresses turnout, because in around 400 constituencies (a guess, I couldn't be bothered to Google) the colour of the MP doesn't change

  21. #261
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    I think most elections (and don't quote me here as if I am the bible) you are over-estimating the marginals. I think it is probably about 120 marginals rather than 250. More can change in a big landslide obviously, but I don't think we are going to see one of those soon in the electoral cycle.
    I'm looking California

    I'm feeling Minnesota

  22. #262
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    You are probably correct, although that would emphasise my point further

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredman View Post
    That's been debunked several times
    It hasn't. Labour have some plans but under current rules you can't Nationalise power, water and broadband in the way they want.
    Nothing to see here...... can't offend sensitive souls.

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