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Thread: How long has Corbyn got left?

  1. #331
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    From an outsiders point of view the problem with the Labour electorate is that if they dismiss Blair from history there seems to be no frame of reference to elude to a better option, there is no way this government should have ever been re elected on past, present or future ideologies but you cant convince otherwise, to keep harping on that Labour invented the health service is about as relevant to the modern generation as Karl Benz inventing the motor car why do we all not drive Mercedes ?
    The media although relevant are the excuse after the fact and was the mantra of the Labour supporters on Facebook, who do actually come across as a pitchfork wielding mob that think Viz is a Tory troll and JC is the greatest prime minister we never had !
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  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddingtonwolf View Post
    This is a very big point.

    Without getting Scottish seats back, Labour is going to struggle because of the electoral boundaries elsewhere. Unless they are propped up by the SNP. And then you have to ask what would have to be given to the SNP to get that support.

    However, Labour being a bit more near the centre might well get chunks of the midlands back at least. Bolsover being a non-labour seat is a total head-fry. First step is to re-build the red wall from here and heading north. Trying to win seats in somewhere like Buckinghamshire would be pointless. They weigh the Conservative vote to save time.
    You say this, but it doesn't seem the case any more. The long-term trends in voting share (as in, over the last 10-15 years) have seen lots of the commuter towns around big cities - including in the home counties - becoming more and more yellow and/or red. Places like Guildford and High Wycombe, which are increasingly less populated by older social conservatives and more and more populated by liberal or left-wing younger families from the urban centres who have moved out to find more space. The inverse, in other words, of what's happened to so many northern towns in the ageing towns of the "red wall". Focusing on socially conservative retirees in the short term has won an election, but it's alarmed a lot of people who were brought into the party (either for the first time, or switching back from New Labour) during the Cameron years. It might not mean big Labour gains are coming, but on current trajectory places like Buckinghamshire look like new Lib Dem heartlands in the making.

    2019 was a weird election, because while it was a terrible loss for Labour, it wasn't a landslide win for the Tories, and they still have a historically unpopular leader themselves. They have a healthy, but modest, majority, but they needed a massive popular vote lead to get it, and that was predicated on: 1) The most unpopular opposition leader as the alternative, and 2) The one-shot coalition-builder that was "Get Brexit Done" bringing plenty of people from across the spectrum who otherwise wouldn't have touched the Tories with a barge pole. I think without Scotland being in play for either Labour or Tories for the foreseeable, it makes it both easy to see how the Tories could lose their majority while winning the popular vote (again), and how Labour could well win the popular vote in the next election but struggle to ever get a working majority without some fundamental re-alignment similar to what we've seen in the red wall.

    (For what it's worth, if I had to make a wild and probably inaccurate prediction now, I think that the big change over the next decade is rural seats coming into play. The south-west is mostly Tory now ofc, but it's been intriguing to see how, now that the Lib Dem hegemony there has been broken, a lot of those seats now look like Tory/Labour marginals rather than Tory/Lib Dem. Environmental policy is going to become incredibly important as climate change gets worse, and one thing Labour has put a lot of work into is how to reshape the economy in ways that are going to protect the landscape and environment... there's an opportunity there for a canny leader to actually try and make inroads among a lot of rural and agricultural communities, which are pretty much ignored completely in the national conversation except for when fox hunting's back in the news.)

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    Didn't like the AusterityLite platform of Miliband and Balls (I actually quite liked both of them on a personal level).

    Could never get on board with JCorbz.
    Quote Originally Posted by leedswolf View Post
    You're mentioning individuals though. I agree about Milliband/Balls and the policy, but to not vote Labour because of Corbyn? The policies were generally sound.
    Sorry , a bit late to the party on this one.

    As you know I was originally a social democratic as in the 1980s incarnation. I am pretty sure I voted blair in 97 and against my better judgement, Kinnock in 92. I have also voted for anti europe parties this century as stance of pro brexit grew stronger and stronger post 2004-6.

    The thing is that of the people I know in this area who consider themselves labour very few of the people who support labour are actually left wing. They are Tories with a conscience and a bit of social awareness that makes them keen to keep things they see of benefit. They support workers rights , the right to strike but not take the piss.They were also the ones in middle England who bought shares in BT and water companies in the 80s and part of the reason I believe is because we had witnessed a winter of discontent under labour then a miners strike that was supported by the labour leadership and more vocal parts of the party. In my experience , and I am only speaking from the experience in a quite narrow area. They , however cant get behind Corbyn. Dont trust Abbott not to make mistakes and thought Milliband was a wet weekend. Now I suspect there are millions of others who are/were similar , hence why it was called New Labour. Returning to old Labour has proved about as successful as us hiring Saunders! Blair knew what he had to do to be elected and if that meant we had a pink tory in power it still had far more social conscience and emphasis on public service than the current bunch of tories being tory.

    I know that is completely simplistic but it explains to me why liberals and labour have these peaks and troughs on performance in elections and when it comes to local elections people are more likely to give them a shot..
    if your path means you walk through hell then walk as if you own the place.

  4. #334
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    London Metropolitan Police opened an investigation in 45 alleged anti-semites in the UK Labour Party after being handed a bumper dossier of evidence purporting to prove the allegations. The police investigated for 2 years & have decided just 1 of those 45 warrants a prosecution.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  5. #335
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    You missed out the phrase in the public interest

  6. #336
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    They weren't able to prosecute some of those because it was deemed to have happened too long ago in the past, while in others it was the distinction between "what is merely offensive or hurtful and what constitutes a criminal offence".

  7. #337
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    "no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party" Commons inquiry 2016.

    We'll see how many people still give a shit about anti-semitism when Starmer takes over.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  8. #338
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    If Labour are happy to have as many bigots and racists as the Tories then yeah, I guess its fine....

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    "no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party" Commons inquiry 2016.

    We'll see how many people still give a shit about anti-semitism when Starmer takes over.
    Yeah, nobody cares, it's all propaganda against the saviour Jezza.
    Nothing to see here...... can't offend sensitive souls.

  10. #340
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    Well Kier Starmer will certainly care:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...starmer-denial

    Youíre going to losing a lot of comrades TP.
    )

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredman View Post
    Well Kier Starmer will certainly care:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...starmer-denial

    You’re going to losing a lot of comrades TP.
    If they are proven Antisemites then fuck them... Better off without them
    Wolves have ambition and wit... why is it such a crime?

  12. #342
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    When is the report into Conservative Islamaphobia due to be released? Was going to be as soon as the Election and Brexit was over, wasn't it?
    Panorama must be doing that exposť on next weeks program...
    Wolves have ambition and wit... why is it such a crime?

  13. #343
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    Haven't seen the one into Russian interference either.

    Or the criminal investigation into Big Fat Al bunging public money to someone he was trying (and failing) to bang.
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  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by darlowolf64 View Post
    When is the report into Conservative Islamaphobia due to be released? Was going to be as soon as the Election and Brexit was over, wasn't it?
    Panorama must be doing that exposť on next weeks program...
    So much this.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visage View Post
    If Labour are happy to have as many bigots and racists as the Tories then yeah, I guess its fine....
    Don't forget the Lib Dems.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  16. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny75 View Post
    Yeah, nobody cares, it's all propaganda against the saviour Jezza.
    Finally.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  17. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredman View Post
    Well Kier Starmer will certainly care:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...starmer-denial

    You’re going to losing a lot of comrades TP.
    It says 'clear case of anti-semitism' so I doubt it.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  18. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    It says 'clear case of anti-semitism' so I doubt it.
    A political party is not a football team, itís ok to admit some of your fellow members are wankers.
    )

  19. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredman View Post
    A political party is not a football team, itís ok to admit some of your fellow members are wankers.
    I'm more than happy to do that.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  20. #350
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    Long-Bailey did some work on Hospital PFI contracts for the NHS (In the days when Labour became the Tories). Nice work if you can get it ...

  21. #351
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    Oh. Definitely no anti-semitism. Nope

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b601904ea9bcc6
    )

  22. #352
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    however trevor phillips has been suspended, and faces expulsion from labour, for potential islamophobia.

    seems labour takes some forms of discrimination seriously then...

    BTW no idea what the allegations are against him, but this has come completely out of leftfield.
    On matchdays, my name is darlowolf

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    Anti racism campaigner suspended for racism against a group of people that aren't a race...
    My name is Geoff...

  24. #354
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    Some bright spark has probably analysed the demographics of support and decided certain people cannot be offended. Trevor who appears an advocate of free speech seems a good egg but he has made a few lucid comments in the past that don't appear to fit ...

  25. #355
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    Don't let the door hit you on the way out Jez:

    https://twitter.com/daverich1/status...044699136?s=20
    )

  26. #356
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    It is bizarre the followers on Facebook, they are literally a Jim Jones type following, almost like he was the second coming, the greatest PM we never had seems the mantra, I think mainly on the belief of him being a man of principles, feel sorry for John Smith who was the best PM we never had.
    I have 2 friends

  27. #357
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    Result to be announced on Saturday morning at 10.45am.

    So in answer to the thread title 68 & 3/4 hours.

  28. #358
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    I was only a couple of days out then. Lol
    'I never predict anything and I never will'......Paul Gascoigne.

  29. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    It is bizarre the followers on Facebook, they are literally a Jim Jones type following, almost like he was the second coming, the greatest PM we never had seems the mantra, I think mainly on the belief of him being a man of principles, feel sorry for John Smith who was the best PM we never had.
    Smith would have been better than Blair I think. Certainly more left wing. I think he'd have made the structural changes Blair was either afraid or not bothered to do.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  30. #360
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    Dear,


    I hope you and your family are keeping safe and well. I would especially like to thank the thousands of you working in key jobs and professions and those organising in mutual aid groups to help your local community.


    As I stand down as Leader, I also want to thank you for all the support you have given the party, and me personally, over the last four and a half years. It has been the honour of my life to lead this party. Our members are my inspiration, and I am so proud that we have become a party of nearly 600,000 strong. I have made it a priority to meet members in every part of our country, and I learned so much from you.


    So many of the issues we have been campaigning on over the past few years have been thrown into even sharper relief by the Coronavirus crisis. It has highlighted the underfunding in our NHS and social care as a result of damaging and counter-productive austerity, the lack of employment rights at work, the scandalously low level of welfare benefits, as well as housing insecurity and homelessness.


    It has also reminded everyone how the people who keep our society running are not the hedge fund billionaires, but the cleaners, nurses, care workers and supermarket staff - so often women and migrant workers on low pay. The strength of our party is that it is rooted in our workplaces and communities in all their diversity.


    Over the past five years we have changed the agenda on austerity and how the economy is run. In 2015, opposing austerity was seen as radical; today it is the political mainstream. A majority of the public supports Labour on issues such as public ownership and higher taxes on the richest. We now look forward as a party of economic inclusion, climate justice, peace and human rights.


    Of course, we could have achieved so much in government, and I am sorry that under my leadership we did not get there. In 2017 we came close, winning the biggest increase in the popular vote since 1945. Sadly, the 2019 election was a Brexit election and our attempt to bridge the gap between Leave and Remain voters was unsuccessful.


    I firmly believe that together we have the ideas, policies, energy and organisation to win a Labour government next time. We can build a society based on social justice, equality, and care for our environment. But it will not come about unless we fight for it.


    Our party grew out of local communities and that is where we must focus our efforts, just as we always have. I will continue to campaign on the issues and principles that have motivated me as Leader, as an MP, as a councillor and as a party member for more than 50 years. I can assure you my voice will not be stilled. I'll be out there campaigning for socialism, peace and justice, and I feel sure we'll be doing that together.


    Best wishes,


    Jeremy Corbyn


    Sorry Jeremy but after 2017, the government were an absolute shambles and then were then taken over by a lying, cheating twat but in all of those years you were not able to gain any sort of lead in the polls. Your biggest mistake was to let the election happen in 2019. The opposition parties had the government by the bollocks and had a chance of at least making some sort of decent fist of the Brexit situation. Your hunger for power along with opposition parties thinking that they could make gains meant that you all fucked up. Events since will shape this Countries future forever however the bollocks of leaving our nearest neighbours trading bloc will mean that we'll all be poorer for longer.

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