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Thread: How long has Corbyn got left?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    Yep Change UK and the Lib Dems have shown us the nation is crying out for a 'centrist' political party.
    Bear in mind that we're talking about Jess Phillips here- would she really fit into those merry bands of ex-Tories?

    A centrist of the Labour party is a very different thing.

  2. #32
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    They are in the wilderness for the next 5 yrs anyway so have time to have at least 3 changes before we get to another election.

    If they get it wrong again this time it probably doesn't make much difference - they can have another go before it matters.
    This year we will mainly be conquering Europe

    (paused for the moment, but hopefully to be continued)

  3. #33
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    Talk is Rayner has stepped aside for Long-Bailey. Bad move IMO.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    Talk is Rayner has stepped aside for Long-Bailey. Bad move IMO.
    There is barely anyone I can think of in the Labour Party, that might be in the running, that has the perceived intelligence or gravitas to become P.M.
    What a shambles they are.
    I still think they will splinter into two parties.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by arklowolf View Post
    There is barely anyone I can think of in the Labour Party, that might be in the running, that has the perceived intelligence or gravitas to become P.M.
    What a shambles they are.
    I still think they will splinter into two parties.
    Rayner would be great. Clive Lewis. Starmer would do as a deputy.

    I don't think they'll split as almost all the 500k members are on the same page versus about 80 MPs. They're welcome to go and form a new party but we've seen how that ends.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  6. #36
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    We've also seen how having a leader that fails to connect with the wider electorate works. The Labour Party was hijacked in 2015, it's the Momentum crowd who are the outliers in terms of the way the country thinks, not the more moderate MP's.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by arklowolf View Post
    There is barely anyone I can think of in the Labour Party, that might be in the running, that has the perceived intelligence or gravitas to become P.M.
    What a shambles they are.
    I still think they will splinter into two parties.
    I've wondered that too

    A lefty Momentum version of labour and a more central "new labour"

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Towner View Post
    We've also seen how having a leader that fails to connect with the wider electorate works. The Labour Party was hijacked in 2015, it's the Momentum crowd who are the outliers in terms of the way the country thinks, not the more moderate MP's.
    I read a lot of these opinions yet the evidence doesn't suggest there is a demand for some sort of 'centrist' party - whatever that might look like. The problem in this election was Brexit and people thinking Corbyn was a twat. The policies are popular.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

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    Deluded.
    )

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    I read a lot of these opinions yet the evidence doesn't suggest there is a demand for some sort of 'centrist' party - whatever that might look like. The problem in this election was Brexit and people thinking Corbyn was a twat. The policies are popular.
    The policies weren't really tested because of the first two reasons you identify. Both main parties threw policies out of nowhere during the campaign Waspi women, BBC license fees etc.

    What is fact is that the only elections Labour have won in 45 years have been on a centre left platform

  11. #41
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    Some of the policies are popular, others are popular in principle but the actual detail is lacking, and yet more seemed to be thrown together right at the end with no thought at all (free broadband, WASPI payouts).

    This performance is a disaster, to carry on down the same road is political suicide. Lame Duck Brown held the Tories to a hung Parliament FFS. We've just had an election where the Tories have won their biggest majority for over 30 years while led by someone who most people fundamentally dislike.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Towner View Post
    The policies weren't really tested because of the first two reasons you identify. Both main parties threw policies out of nowhere during the campaign Waspi women, BBC license fees etc.

    What is fact is that the only elections Labour have won in 45 years have been on a centre left platform
    They weren't centre left under Blair. Centre right is more accurate.

    Policies popular both with polling and on doorsteps. Main issue seems to be Brexit and not trusting Corbyn.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    Some of the policies are popular, others are popular in principle but the actual detail is lacking, and yet more seemed to be thrown together right at the end with no thought at all (free broadband, WASPI payouts).

    This performance is a disaster, to carry on down the same road is political suicide. Lame Duck Brown held the Tories to a hung Parliament FFS. We've just had an election where the Tories have won their biggest majority for over 30 years while led by someone who most people fundamentally dislike.
    I think not liking Corbyn was universal, some people like BoJo

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    They weren't centre left under Blair. Centre right is more accurate.

    Policies popular both with polling and on doorsteps. Main issue seems to be Brexit and not trusting Corbyn.
    That's the problem though you and your ilk genuinely believe that. Minimum wage, civil partnerships, mass hospital and school regeneration that's not centre right, you just think it is.

  15. #45
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    Momentum has such a hold I fear labour could be fucked. Centrist is the way to go. Don't compare labour with others.
    Carole Baskin is to blame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWolves View Post
    I think not liking Corbyn was universal, some people like BoJo
    Some people bought Starsailor records.

    I'm no fan of Corbyn at all but he is nothing like on the same level as Johnson who is a genuinely awful person.
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  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    Some people bought Starsailor records.

    I'm no fan of Corbyn at all but he is nothing like on the same level as Johnson who is a genuinely awful person.
    Some people buy Nickelback albums, lots of people do

    I agree with you, but we're clearly in the minority. More people like / tolerate BoJo than Corbyn

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber-_-man View Post
    Momentum has such a hold I fear labour could be fucked. Centrist is the way to go. Don't compare labour with others.
    Yeah, momentum "control" labour at the moment. Some of the older labour voters I know don't recognize their party anymore

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Towner View Post
    That's the problem though you and your ilk genuinely believe that. Minimum wage, civil partnerships, mass hospital and school regeneration that's not centre right, you just think it is.
    And you and your ilk genuinely believe Blair was centre left! Labour started to lose the working class vote when they failed to protect them from the effects of Thatcherism. Huge sections of the population were left behind which has brought us to where we are now.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWolves View Post
    Yeah, momentum "control" labour at the moment. Some of the older labour voters I know don't recognize their party anymore
    Labour has 500k members of which momentum number 40k. Nobody has 'taken over' it's just democracy. Centrists seem to struggle with it when they don't like the results.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    Some people bought Starsailor records.

    I'm no fan of Corbyn at all but he is nothing like on the same level as Johnson who is a genuinely awful person.
    To you. This country has decided low taxes is the way to go rather than social policies. That's the reality.
    Carole Baskin is to blame.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    And you and your ilk genuinely believe Blair was centre left! Labour started to lose the working class vote when they failed to protect them from the effects of Thatcherism. Huge sections of the population were left behind which has brought us to where we are now.
    Blair was almost centre right. But would I take Blair over Cameron, May and Bojo? In a fucking heartbeat.
    Carole Baskin is to blame.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    And you and your ilk genuinely believe Blair was centre left! Labour started to lose the working class vote when they failed to protect them from the effects of Thatcherism. Huge sections of the population were left behind which has brought us to where we are now.
    Nope, where we are now is when Corbyn disappeared from the referendum discussion letting Cameron and Osborne be the face of the remain campaign. He allowed people in traditional working class northern communities to believe their life was shit because of the EU to go completely unchecked. Thursday stems back to that. Blaming the PM who won 3 thumping majorities is bizarre, while you have that attitude you will continue to be part of the problem, not the solution.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton Peck View Post
    Labour has 500k members of which momentum number 40k. Nobody has 'taken over' it's just democracy. Centrists seem to struggle with it when they don't like the results.
    I certainly don't like 203 MPs as a result.
    There are only two man-made objects that can be seen from space.

    1. The Great Wall of China

    2. Low Hill at Christmas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber-_-man View Post
    To you. This country has decided low taxes is the way to go rather than social policies. That's the reality.
    Feel free to make the case why Boris Johnson (if that is his real name, which it isn't) is not an awful person.
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  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddingtonwolf View Post
    I certainly don't like 203 MPs as a result.
    203 MPs against the back drop of May Johnson and brexit is a disaster. Its like Barcelona finishing in an Europa league place and celebrating!
    Carole Baskin is to blame.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    Feel free to make the case why Boris Johnson (if that is his real name, which it isn't) is not an awful person.
    OK me old. I have worked for the cunt. You haven't. He is more intelligent than you give credit. I do not agree with his politics but he is what Napoleon would call a lucky General. He has something that the public like and believe in. That's why he has a majority. He also has a mandate from the electorate. Its not 52/48 anymore. Remain has been stuffed. So its now up to him to deliver. If he doesnt. Vote him out. I just pray labour understands the need to provide a centrist alternative. I fear not.
    Carole Baskin is to blame.

  28. #58
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    None of that makes him a non-awful person

    On a personal level, given what we know about him (much of which he can't even be bothered to refute, as it's clearly true), he's an absolute walloper. Why would you say he's not an awful person? What is nice about him, or compassionate, or understanding of normal people, where are any of the anecdotes that *don't* paint him as a total stroker?

    Even his friends don't really like him. His own brother quit politics rather than work with him.
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  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    None of that makes him a non-awful person

    On a personal level, given what we know about him (much of which he can't even be bothered to refute, as it's clearly true), he's an absolute walloper. Why would you say he's not an awful person? What is nice about him, or compassionate, or understanding of normal people, where are any of the anecdotes that *don't* paint him as a total stroker?

    Even his friends don't really like him. His own brother quit politics rather than work with him.
    No I agree he as a person sucks. But for whatever reason he seems to have the Midas touch. I think he will deliver, unfortunately and labour will continue doing an ostrich impression and get stuffed again in 2024.
    Carole Baskin is to blame.

  30. #60
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    Excellent, so you agree with what I said in the first place and we've both just wasted 20 minutes
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