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Thread: Just how good were/was/is/are (Sports Edition)

  1. #61
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    Thought we'd get more take up on this one. Ah well, can't win 'em all.

    6. Nigel Mansell

    Nigel Ernest James Mansell, CBE (born 8 August 1953) is a British former racing driver who won both the Formula One World Championship (1992) and the CART Indy Car World Series (1993). Mansell was the reigning F1 champion when he moved over to CART, becoming the first person to win the CART title in his debut season, and making him the only person to hold both the World Drivers' Championship and the American open-wheel National Championship simultaneously.

    His career in Formula One spanned 15 seasons, with his final two full seasons of top-level racing being spent in the CART series. Mansell is the second most successful British Formula One driver of all time in terms of race wins with 31 victories, and is seventh overall on the Formula One race winners list behind Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna and Fernando Alonso. He held the record for the most poles set in a single season, which was broken in 2011 by Sebastian Vettel. He was rated in the top 10 Formula One drivers of all time by longtime Formula One commentator Murray Walker. In 2008, ESPN.com ranked him 24th on their "Top 25 Drivers of All Time" list. He was also ranked No. 9 of the 50 greatest F1 drivers of all time by the Times Online on a list that also included such drivers as Prost, Senna, Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark.

    Mansell raced in the Grand Prix Masters series in 2005, and won the championship title. He later signed a one-off race deal for the Scuderia Ecosse GT race team to drive their number 63 Ferrari F430 GT2 car at Silverstone on 6 May 2007. He has since competed in additional sports car races with his sons Leo and Greg, including the 2010 24 Hours of Le Mans.

    Mansell was inducted to the International Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2005. He is the current president of one of the UK's largest Youth Work Charities, UK Youth. He is also President of the IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists) and has been a Vice President of the British Racing and Sports Car Club since 1987. In September 2014, it was announced that Mansell would be opening a Mitsubishi franchise on Jersey later in the month. In September 2015 the organisers of the Mexican Grand Prix (which was returning to Formula One after a 23-year absence) announced that the final corner of the re-designed Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez circuit would be named after the 1992 Formula One World Champion and winner of the final race at the Mexico City circuit before it was dropped from the Formula One calendar for the 1993 season.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwb3ZRkhV8E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUtbXnNy4Qs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSD-VllWlYg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiG7vNlmp5c

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRLdTXlAi5I
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  2. #62
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    I can't recall when I stopped watching Formula One, but used to follow it back when Mansell was racing rather than the processions in the periods that followed. Recall watching his tyre explode when on the verge of the title back in the eighties, as then with a lot of sports, UK Champions were a scarce breed.

    The youth (and those a bit older) of today have been lucky to witness, Rugby World Cup/Cricket World Cup wins and the likes of Murray, Hamilton, Fury/Joshua and the Olympic Champions that we have churned out over recent years

  3. #63
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    I was dangled over the bridge at Imola as a seven month old when Nigel moved back to Williams in 91. My parents were Mansell fanatics.

    I used to religiously watch a Mansell VHS compilation when I was growing up that ran through both the 92 Championship winning season and then his season in CART. Great memories.
    Last edited by Nando; 27th April 2020 at 03:34 PM.

  4. #64
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    I used to think Mansell was going to be another 'plucky Brit' without pushing the top guys at the start of his career but he really came on strong, always enjoyed watching him, gave 100% every time
    FJRWolf

  5. #65
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    A decent driver for sure. His move on Picquet into Stowe is rightly a thing of legend. Not absolutely in the top echelon with Senna Hamilton Schumacher Clarke Fangio, but right behind with people like Vettel, Prost and Lauda.

    I loved watching him race.
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  6. #66
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    I don't do Sundays, so missed yesterdays 70's Netherlands.

    I had watched the whole 74 tournament but had to work on the day of the final. Seem to recall that they changed their style for that game - trying to become game managers - so got what they deserved from the match, but not from the tournament. They played football you fell in love with - a team full of flair, skill, and confidence. Positions meant nothing. My favourite team of all time. Total tragedy and travesty that they lost consecutive finals - especially when you consider some of the Argentine/German dross that won later tournaments.

  7. #67
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    No problem with revisiting the old ones, my man. The thread isn't that busy.

    It's a team that fascinates me even though it was years before I was born. That first video I posted is essential viewing.
    The rain falls hard on a humdrum town.

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  8. #68
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    I really thought they were still brilliant in 1978, although no Cruyff for fairly standard Dutch falling out reasons! The 1978 final was ridiculous. Argentina shouldn't have been there but for a total fix by Peru and their Argentinian keeper throwing everything in his own net, and then on the day Kempes just became a legendary forward for about forty minutes. I went to bed gutted that night as I so wanted Holland to win. Six years old and gutted by football, it seems faintly daft now.
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  9. #69
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    BTW - check out Arie Haans goal against Italy. To beat Dino Zoff from that range. Holy moly.
    There are only two man-made objects that can be seen from space.

    1. The Great Wall of China

    2. Low Hill at Christmas

  10. #70
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    Why they will qualify: Nuno Espirito Santo is actually a tactical genius.

  11. #71
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    Shit keeping really. Concrete boots I presume...

  12. #72
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    He never amounted to much after that anyway
    Why they will qualify: Nuno Espirito Santo is actually a tactical genius.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    I voted for that as goal of the tournament (asked my dad to send our entry in). Some spawny effort from Archie Gemmil won it.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddingtonwolf View Post
    A magnificent side. Rinus Michels was a tactical genius. I was woken up to watch the 1978 final but although I was present on my dad's knee I have no recollection of the 1974 final. Obviously I have watched chunks of it since many times. Cruyff was a truly special player indeed.

    Jongbloed was a cracking keeper

    Haan and Van Hannegem, Wim Jansen.

    Krol, Neeskens

    The names trip off the tongue.

    For me, the best side never to win the world cup.
    From what I recall (aged 6!)The 78 final was on in the early evening. There was a delay because of an argument over a Dutch players cast on his wrist wasn’t there?

  15. #75
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    There was indeed, I think it was one of the Van Der Kerkoffs twins, but could be wrong.

    Summer of 1979 ( I think ) we were on the verge of signing one of the twins and it collapsed at the last moment, cant remember why

  16. #76
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    Cruyuff claimed that he was kidnapped by gangsters and told that his family would be harmed if he went to Argentina in 78.

  17. #77
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    His other goal in the tournament wasnt a tap-in either

    https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/se...0&action=click

  18. #78
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    Just needs the Alan partridge football commentary over the top,the "he's got a foot like a traction engine,SHIT did you see that? And that was liquid football"
    See post #5516 of ex wolf watch to find out why in my house,i hate Kenny Miller

  19. #79
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    Ok whilst were on a Dutch theme

    Why they will qualify: Nuno Espirito Santo is actually a tactical genius.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    Thought we'd get more take up on this one. Ah well, can't win 'em all.

    6. Nigel Mansell

    Nigel Ernest James Mansell, CBE (born 8 August 1953) is a British former racing driver who won both the Formula One World Championship (1992) and the CART Indy Car World Series (1993). Mansell was the reigning F1 champion when he moved over to CART, becoming the first person to win the CART title in his debut season, and making him the only person to hold both the World Drivers' Championship and the American open-wheel National Championship simultaneously.

    His career in Formula One spanned 15 seasons, with his final two full seasons of top-level racing being spent in the CART series. Mansell is the second most successful British Formula One driver of all time in terms of race wins with 31 victories, and is seventh overall on the Formula One race winners list behind Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna and Fernando Alonso. He held the record for the most poles set in a single season, which was broken in 2011 by Sebastian Vettel. He was rated in the top 10 Formula One drivers of all time by longtime Formula One commentator Murray Walker. In 2008, ESPN.com ranked him 24th on their "Top 25 Drivers of All Time" list. He was also ranked No. 9 of the 50 greatest F1 drivers of all time by the Times Online on a list that also included such drivers as Prost, Senna, Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark.

    Mansell raced in the Grand Prix Masters series in 2005, and won the championship title. He later signed a one-off race deal for the Scuderia Ecosse GT race team to drive their number 63 Ferrari F430 GT2 car at Silverstone on 6 May 2007. He has since competed in additional sports car races with his sons Leo and Greg, including the 2010 24 Hours of Le Mans.

    Mansell was inducted to the International Motorsports Hall of Fame in 2005. He is the current president of one of the UK's largest Youth Work Charities, UK Youth. He is also President of the IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists) and has been a Vice President of the British Racing and Sports Car Club since 1987. In September 2014, it was announced that Mansell would be opening a Mitsubishi franchise on Jersey later in the month. In September 2015 the organisers of the Mexican Grand Prix (which was returning to Formula One after a 23-year absence) announced that the final corner of the re-designed Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez circuit would be named after the 1992 Formula One World Champion and winner of the final race at the Mexico City circuit before it was dropped from the Formula One calendar for the 1993 season.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwb3ZRkhV8E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUtbXnNy4Qs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSD-VllWlYg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiG7vNlmp5c

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRLdTXlAi5I
    Mansell really was that good. The Mansell charge was something to behold. Should have had more than the one title, and would have done but for mechanical failures.
    As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease in the UK.A HCID is defined as: 1.Acute infectious disease 2.Typically has a high case-fatality rate 3.May not have effective prophylaxis or treatment 3.Often difficult to recognise & detect rapidly 4.Ability to spread in the community & within healthcare settings 5.Requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    4. Bryan Robson

    Bryan Robson OBE (born 11 January 1957) is an English football manager and former player. Born in Chester-le-Street, County Durham, he began his career with West Bromwich Albion in 1972 before moving to Manchester United in 1981, where he became the longest serving captain in the club's history and won two Premier League winners' medals, three FA Cups, two FA Charity Shields and a European Cup Winners' Cup. In August 2011, Robson was voted as the greatest ever Manchester United player in a poll of the club's former players as part of a new book, 19, released to celebrate the club's record-breaking 19th league title.

    Robson represented England on 90 occasions between 1980 and 1991, making him, at the time, the fifth most capped England player. His goalscoring tally of 26 placed him eighth on the list at the time. Robson captained his country 65 times, with only Bobby Moore and Billy Wright having captained England on more occasions. Robson is also known by the nicknames "Robbo" and "Captain Marvel". Bobby Robson stated that Robson was, along with Alan Shearer and Kevin Beattie, the best British player he ever worked with.

    Robson began his management career as a player-manager with Middlesbrough in 1994, retiring from playing in 1997. In seven years as Middlesbrough manager, he guided them to three Wembley finals, which were all lost, and earned them promotion to the Premier League on two occasions. Between 1994 and 1996, he also served as assistant coach to England manager Terry Venables, which included Euro 96. He later returned to West Bromwich Albion for two years as manager, helping them become the first top division team in 14 years to avoid relegation after being bottom of the league table on Christmas Day. Less successful have been his short-lived spells as manager of Bradford City and Sheffield United, the former lasting barely six months and ending in relegation from what is now the EFL Championship, and the latter lasting less than a year and seeing his expensively-assembled side fail to challenge for promotion to the Premier League. On 23 September 2009, Robson was appointed manager of the Thailand national team. He resigned on 8 June 2011. On 1 July 2011, Robson was appointed "Global Ambassador" at Manchester United.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0EGd2dPBlM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYmAxqG59l0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1h-LdlCesw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr0zpRp0Q1I
    The only thing I can't forgive our club legend for is his part in taking Robbo out of the 1990 finals. Fantastic player who never gave anything less than his heart body and soul.
    As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease in the UK.A HCID is defined as: 1.Acute infectious disease 2.Typically has a high case-fatality rate 3.May not have effective prophylaxis or treatment 3.Often difficult to recognise & detect rapidly 4.Ability to spread in the community & within healthcare settings 5.Requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely.

  22. #82
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    I only started watching football in 86 so as a consequence never rated Robson. He always got injured and we always looked better without him in the side.
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  23. #83
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    You do realise how long ago 1986 was now, you think it was only yesterday.....nope
    Why they will qualify: Nuno Espirito Santo is actually a tactical genius.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    5. Netherlands 1974

    During the 1970s, Total Football (Dutch: Totaalvoetbal) was invented, pioneered by Ajax and led by playmaker Johan Cruyff and national team head coach Rinus Michels. The Dutch made significant strides, qualifying for two World Cup finals in the decade. Carlos Alberto, captain of the Brazilian team that won the 1970 FIFA World Cup said, "The only team I've seen that did things differently was Holland at the 1974 World Cup in Germany. Since then everything looks more or less the same to me ... Their 'carousel' style of play was amazing to watch and marvelous for the game."

    In 1974, the Netherlands beat both Brazil and Argentina in the second group stage, reaching the final for the first time in their history. However, they lost to West Germany in the final in Munich, despite having gone up 1–0 through Johan Neeskens' early penalty kick before a German had even touched the ball. However, a converted penalty by Paul Breitner and the winner from Gerd Müller, led to a victory for the Germans.



    https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/1...of-the-oranje/

    http://footballsquads.co.uk/national...74/holland.htm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Df0FpXBdaw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkQxY0yCno

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPS5JuBmdc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbqhQxUusTg
    The greatest side never to win a World Cup. The 74 i final s the first World Cup I have any memory of. I can remember the excitement in the house because lifelong Wolves fan, and arguably the best referee England's ever produced, Jack Taylor was in charge. I remember the move that won the 1st minute penalty without Germany touching teh ball and going outside to kick a ball against the garage because an Oranje victory seemed certain and not being able to understand how Germany were 2-1 up when I came back in. Year later I read an interview with one of the Dutch players, who said pretty much the same thing, that the fact they were 2-1 down at full time came as a shock as throughout the game they were so certain they'd win the scoreline had almost passed them by. The only Dutch side that comes close to this one is the '88 European Championship winning team.. They were both great sides and there's one thing they both had in common. The late great Rinus Michels who changed the game forever.
    As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease in the UK.A HCID is defined as: 1.Acute infectious disease 2.Typically has a high case-fatality rate 3.May not have effective prophylaxis or treatment 3.Often difficult to recognise & detect rapidly 4.Ability to spread in the community & within healthcare settings 5.Requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsch Wolf View Post
    Absolutely took the piss at Newcastle, no wonder they hate him.
    From a Geordie mate on his 10 people he hates Facebook thingymajig :

    And to think we've got this far without Micheal Owen.
    Oh, sit down, strap in and brace yourselves....

    Signed for club record fee (higher than Shearer, Ginola, Les Ferdinand, Gary Speed, Shay Given etc etc just to give you an idea of what he was supposed to be....

    Carried on living on his Cheshire farm so he was close to his horses and racecourses.

    Played more minutes for England than he had for Newcastle TWO YEARS into his £105,000 a WEEK contract, highest one in Premier League at the time...

    The quintessential Dwarf Cripple, a man who could become 'injured' blowing his nose or placing a bet at Chester races where he spent most of his Newcastle career.
    The whining little shit blamed anything from a training pitch to having to play as a lone striker which is exactly what he did at every previous club. A joke of a 'footballer' who will spend the rest of his life living off that goal for England when he was a kid and still interested in playing instead of spunking his cash on buying and training racehorses in his spare time (he had a lot of this in his career!)

    And now his drone of a non Geographical nasally voice can be heard telling us how other players aren't "putting in a shift" or how they aren't worth their transfer fee without any irony or shame.

    Despicable little hobbit, like one of them Gonks with a sensible Michael Owen haircut, like the the wanker kid in your school team the PE teacher seems to like (or fancies his Mum) so plays him every week then the little shit has a go at you for not passing after you scored and he was 20 yards back screaming "PASS, PASS, PASS!!!"

    As time passes his 'worth' is eclipsed by players of half the talent but 10 times the loyalty and determination to play for a club.

    I actually hate the man.
    You may have guessed.
    Why they will qualify: Nuno Espirito Santo is actually a tactical genius.

  26. #86
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    I've put this here (and not Wolves) because the thought came to me while watching 'The Impossible Job' via Zoom with a mate the other day. Also, if it comes to Wolves, it's not really much of a debate!

    Graham Taylor (1944-2017)

    Graham Taylor, OBE was an English football player, manager, pundit and chairman of Watford Football Club. He was the manager of the England national football team from 1990 to 1993, and also managed Lincoln City, Watford, Aston Villa and Wolverhampton Wanderers.

    Born in Worksop, Nottinghamshire, Taylor grew up in Scunthorpe, Lincolnshire, which he regarded as his hometown. The son of a sports journalist who worked on the Scunthorpe Evening Telegraph, Taylor found his love of football in the stands of the Old Show Ground watching Scunthorpe United. He became a player, playing at full back for Grimsby Town and Lincoln City.

    After retiring as a player through injury in 1972, Taylor became a manager and coach. He won the Fourth Division title with Lincoln in 1976, before moving to Watford in 1977. He took Watford from the Fourth Division to the First in five years. Under Taylor, Watford were First Division runners-up in 1982–83, and FA Cup finalists in 1984. Taylor took over at Aston Villa in 1987, leading the club to promotion in 1988 and 2nd place in the First Division in 1989–90.

    In July 1990, he became the manager of the England team. England qualified for the 1992 European Championships, but were knocked out in the group stages. Taylor resigned in November 1993, after England failed to qualify for the 1994 FIFA World Cup in the United States. Taylor faced heavy criticism from fans and media during his tenure as an England manager and earned additional public interest and scrutiny when a television documentary which he had permitted to film the failed campaign from behind the scenes, An Impossible Job, aired in 1994.

    Taylor returned to club management in March 1994 with Wolverhampton Wanderers. After one season at Molineux, he returned to Watford, and led the club to the Premier League in 1999 after back-to-back promotions. His last managerial role was manager of Aston Villa, to which he returned in 2002. He left at the end of the 2002–03 season. Taylor served as Watford's chairman from 2009 until 2012 where he continued to hold the position of honorary life-president. He also worked as a pundit for BBC Radio Five Live.

    Now for me, Wolves aside, his club record is almost unimpeachable:

    Lincoln promoted from 4 to 3 with a points record under the old 2 ppg.
    Took Watford from 4 to 1 reaching the 1984 FA Cup final and reaching the 3rd round of the UEFA Cup.
    Took Villa from Division 2 to a 2nd place finish in Division 1 in 89/90 finishing 9 points behind Liverpool.
    Took Watford from League 2 to Prem.

    It's remarkable stuff really and worthy of high praise. I think history has unfairly dismissed him as a long ball merchant and whilst his teams certainly had a set way of playing they could also be very entertaining to watch. Indeed, when watching recent re-runs of 'The Big Match' it was clear that Taylor wasn't exactly alone at that time in bypassing midfield. Also, he was clearly a very effective man-manager and someone who had the respect and even love of many of the people he came into contact with. Then there's England...

    My assessment of his period with England was always that he simply wasn't up to the level but he also had a small pool of talent to choose from. He lost Shearer for a long time to injury and had Gazza during his inconsistent Lazio period - after his 1990 peak and before his Rangers renaissance. That said, a simple look around the dressing room during 'The Impossible Job' tells a very different story. These are some of the players that featured:

    Martyn, Flowers, Seaman, Woods
    Parker, Dixon, Pallister, Adams, Pearce, Keown, Dorigo, Wright, Jones
    Platt, Barnes, Gascoigne, Merson, Batty, Webb, Steven, Ince, Sharpe
    Wright, Sheringham, Ferdinand

    Every 5 minutes watching the documentary I was like 'Shit! We had him?!' This is before we even get into the the players he dumped such as Beardsley, Waddle and Lineker although to be fair the latter's time may have been up anyway. It shouldn't have been beyond a decent coach to get these players to the 1994 World Cup.

    My own views are that whilst a brilliant club manager he struggled with England because:

    1. Too loyal to players. He kept faith with Walker when chronically out of form and with Barnes who only rarely produced club form for England. He also picked Gazza at times when he clearly wasn't fit. See also: every England manager ever.
    2. He was clearly someone who enjoyed working with players and just didn't get the time you have at clubs. He employed 3 at the back v Norway with about 2 days to prep and admitted this was a bad call afterwards.
    3. Taylor built 'teams' during his club career. There were no stars, no big signings - just a well drilled and motivated group of players. I wonder now how comfortable he was managing players of the highest ability. He'd often choose the players listed above but too often they were jettisoned for B level talent like Palmer, Barrett, Bardsley and Sinton.

    Thoughts?
    When asked to name her greatest achievement Thatcher replied: 'Tony Blair and New Labour.'

  27. #87
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    Like you say,decent bloke, good manager apart from us,with hindsight doing that documentary was probably a mistake, he got slaughtered in the press and and never quite lived down the turnip nickname and I think for the rest of his career that really hurt him
    See post #5516 of ex wolf watch to find out why in my house,i hate Kenny Miller

  28. #88
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    His football was based on Charles Hughes football philosophy and it was appalling to watch. It won him games and respect which he rightly earned.

    Nice guy by all accounts and clearly wanted to build dynasties rather than the short termist approach so many managers take.

  29. #89
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    Stripping out flair players for England was nonsensical. Beardsley was still in tremendous form for Everton and Newcastle, Waddle was one of Marseille's best players when they made the European Cup final. I can't even begin to imagine what he was thinking there.

    He had a bit of bad luck with injuries but all too often there never seemed to be a joined-up plan, players were shuffled in and out all the time, as mentioned the three at the back vs Norway was a disaster (of course years later McClaren would do the same thing vs Croatia, with the same result).

    The football was appalling, wasn't a great deal better at Wolves either.

    Lovely guy, universally liked in football it seems but was very much the wrong choice for both England and Wolves.
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    Keith Curle as right back in the first game of Euro '92 always stands out.

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