What can Fosun do now?

[Squeak]

So, we all agree that Fosun have screwed up in more ways than one. The transfer strategy over the past few years and on the season ticket pricing fiasco to name but two but it strikes me there really is too much negative energy directed their way. For Fosun to learn, what do they need to do now to at least try and repair some of the damage inflicted?

I know some of you will be stubborn and say that there is nothing and you aren't giving them another penny, and that's fair enough if you want to do that, but for others, how can they mitigate and begin to repair their relationship with fans? What would you like to see them do now?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

So, we all agree that Fosun have screwed up in more ways than one. The transfer strategy over the past few years and on the season ticket pricing fiasco to name but two but it strikes me there really is too much negative energy directed their way. For Fosun to learn, what do they need to do now to at least try and repair some of the damage inflicted?

I know some of you will be stubborn and say that there is nothing and you aren't giving them another penny, and that's fair enough if you want to do that, but for others, how can they mitigate and begin to repair their relationship with fans? What would you like to see them do now?

I would like them to fuck off personally. That would not only repair some of the damage but mean they can't do any more damage in future.

 

[Tredman]

I would like them to fuck off personally.

This

 

[Squeak]

I would like them to fuck off personally. That would not only repair some of the damage but mean they can't do any more damage in future.

Yeah, OK but what does that achieve? Another owner who may be worse? Where does such an owner come from? We've seen many examples of poor owners in the game and no guarantees we get a better one.

So let's not go down the fuck them off road and talk about what they can actually do that might resonate with fans in a positive way. It's far too easy to go down the negative road so let's not.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Jeff Shi cannot be in a front facing role or indeed be the driving force behind club strategy. He is blatantly awful at both and now hugely unpopular with no realistic road back and has been responsible for four entire years of largely awful decisions.

Whoever does replace him has to be supported by a proper executive team, we are ludicrously light at that level for an established Premier League club. In any credible business you have to have a system of checks and balances, not one guy at the top who comes up with hairbrained crap and there's absolutely no-one there to challenge it.

Stop the taps on/taps off mechanism of our transfer business, it isn't helpful in any sense.

Support managers properly and don't leave them out hanging to dry in the middle of a season (I have no sympathy with Lage on the whole because he had no business being there anyway and he's a wanker, but they definitely didn't help him at points).

Return ticket pricing to a sensible level and above all else STOP BLOODY LYING to fans. We aren't idiots and we can check what you say, when it blatantly isn't true how do you think that looks.

Do some basic maintenance on the ground because it's a tatty mess now and there's no excuse for that.

Wouldn't repair all the damage but there are some basic steps to take.

 

[AndyWolves]

Yeah, OK but what does that achieve? Another owner who may be worse? Where does such an owner come from? We've seen many examples of poor owners in the game and no guarantees we get a better one.

So let's not go down the fuck them off road and talk about what they can actually do that might resonate with fans in a positive way. It's far too easy to go down the negative road so let's not.

What's your view?

 

[Squeak]

You asked what Fosun can do, and you were given an answer.

If you want to know what Wolves can do, that's a different question.

Oh, I see. We're going down that road.
So what can Wolves / Fosun do, given Fosun own Wolves?

 

[Kenny]

Jeff Shi cannot be in a front facing role or indeed be the driving force behind club strategy. He is blatantly awful at both and now hugely unpopular with no realistic road back and has been responsible for four entire years of largely awful decisions.

Whoever does replace him has to be supported by a proper executive team, we are ludicrously light at that level for an established Premier League club. In any credible business you have to have a system of checks and balances, not one guy at the top who comes up with hairbrained crap and there's absolutely no-one there to challenge it.

Stop the taps on/taps off mechanism of our transfer business, it isn't helpful in any sense.

Support managers properly and don't leave them out hanging to dry in the middle of a season (I have no sympathy with Lage on the whole because he had no business being there anyway and he's a wanker, but they definitely didn't help him at points).

Return ticket pricing to a sensible level and above all else STOP BLOODY LYING to fans. We aren't idiots and we can check what you say, when it blatantly isn't true how do you think that looks.

Do some basic maintenance on the ground because it's a tatty mess now and there's no excuse for that.

Wouldn't repair all the damage but there are some basic steps to take.

Very much this.

 

[Squeak]

Jeff Shi cannot be in a front facing role or indeed be the driving force behind club strategy. He is blatantly awful at both and now hugely unpopular with no realistic road back and has been responsible for four entire years of largely awful decisions.

Whoever does replace him has to be supported by a proper executive team, we are ludicrously light at that level for an established Premier League club. In any credible business you have to have a system of checks and balances, not one guy at the top who comes up with hairbrained crap and there's absolutely no-one there to challenge it.

Stop the taps on/taps off mechanism of our transfer business, it isn't helpful in any sense.

Support managers properly and don't leave them out hanging to dry in the middle of a season (I have no sympathy with Lage on the whole because he had no business being there anyway and he's a wanker, but they definitely didn't help him at points).

Return ticket pricing to a sensible level and above all else STOP BLOODY LYING to fans. We aren't idiots and we can check what you say, when it blatantly isn't true how do you think that looks.

Wouldn't repair all the damage but there are some basic steps to take.

Thank you.

Understand where you are coming from given that is what is generally presented to us but how much do we really know about the Fosun structure and what Jeff Shi is actually charged with? We are all great at making wild ass guesses based on what we see and hear but how much of it is the actual reality?

I broadly agree that he needs to step away as the face of Fosun for a while but who then replaces him? Someone else who has to go through the huge learning curve Shi has and continues to do?

I also understand your remarks re: transfer business but some of this is caused when you hire the wrong football people and then have to alter course because results are not what is expected. That's the football business and all clubs will suffer in this regard, some more than others.

Lying to fans is interesting because that usually boils down to what someone says and how the receiving party interprets it. This is where clear communication is needed and I agree, that hasn't happened over the last 2 to 3 years as well as it might. I do also agree that some of the statements made can be easily fact checked and sometimes things don't appear to stand up as spoken.

Executive team... again, understand where you are coming from and playing devils advocate here, is there a danger of too many cooks in the kitchen if you go down that route? As football fans we largely judge performance by what we see on the field and then how much that is going to cost us. However, from the other side, they have a far bigger picture to see and many aspects to juggle. So, yes, perhaps we do need to get a better executive team behind us but the one we have got presently, has got us out of the Championship and sustained our place in the Prem while also being prepared to invest in the overall structure of the club. I'd maintain that they have done a pretty decent job in that regard even though we have seem some major hic-cups.

 

[Sniffer]

What does Jeff do now?
Are we going under?
What did he get wrong?
I thought he had it sorted
Lost the other day
Maybe I'm just stupid
Can't he try again?
No-one told me costs were rising

 

[Tredman]

What does Jeff do now?
Are we going under?
What did he get wrong?
I thought he had it sorted
Lost the other day
Maybe I'm just stupid
Can't he try again?
No-one told me costs were rising

Ah louise

 

[Sniffer]

I just had to look again.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I can assure you that no-one at Fosun above Jeff Shi gives a shit about Wolves unless it looks like we might go down (because seriously, a good 70%+ of the value of Wolverhampton Wanderers is predicated on us being a Premier League club), and there's no-one below him at the club who has any authority to properly challenge him let alone overrule him.

It's a power vacuum. He's somehow manoeuvred himself into the kind of position that your likes of Ron Noades had in the 80s and 90s. What he says is how the club runs.

He signed Fabio Silva, he appointed Bruno Lage, he has decided that Sudu (fake company) should make our kit with Debet (a fake betting company) as main sponsor and he is behind the astronomical ticket prices - worth repeating, 64% higher now behind the goals than in 2018, a summer when we signed Jonny, Joao Moutinho, Rui Patricio and Raul Jimenez.

They can appoint someone competent to run the club, or they can keep him with the inevitable results as he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[Squeak]

What's your view?

It evolves to be perfectly honest.

I don't believe Shi or Fosun are our enemy. I do believe that they too want success for our football club both on the field and financially. I have to believe that because I don't see a win for them if that is not what they want.

Naturally, disagreements will happen as to how success might be achieved. They had huge success originally but then sustaining the club in the Prem. has proved far more difficult than they thought it would, I suspect.

Further, the football world is always evolving. We've seen clubs cheat the financial restraints put into place and we've also suffered when being relatively successful because we couldn't continue to fund more players to support more success.

So, I try to understand the difficulty that any owner has of a Premiership football team.

I totally understand the dismay around the new pricing. I think it has been handled poorly but generally speaking you will always upset someone when increasing prices. It's inevitable but the way they have done this has been so so poor. But, here's my caveat, only they know the true financial picture at present and they have shown they are still prepared to invest in the team. Or that is how it appears now. The end of the transfer window will tell the final story.

So what can they do?

Deutsch touched on it with the comment about lying to fans. Under no circumstances can they do that. They built a lot of good faith and trust with the fan base initially and we had some fantastic years. I think they need to go back and study that and see what they did right then as well as communicate with the fans more often.

I think communicating more often and being more transparent is essential in garnering trust.

I'd also like to see more community events and a better PR department that actually gets ahead of the message rather than reacting to it. It's not difficult to be pro-active rather than reactive in this regard. A hands up "this is where we messed up and how we are trying not to repeat those mistakes" goes a long long way. People are generally forgiving when someone accepts responsibility. And that is what Shi needs to do more often and more openly rather than listing reasons or excuses for decisions. People will understand that mistakes are made. We are all human. Acknowledge them and try to do better.

I'll not go further for now but I have a few other things but I'm honestly more interested in your views.

 

[Tredman]

I can assure you that no-one at Fosun above Jeff Shi gives a shit about Wolves unless it looks like we might go down (because seriously, a good 70%+ of the value of Wolverhampton Wanderers is predicated on us being a Premier League club), and there's no-one below him at the club who has any authority to properly challenge him let alone overrule him.

It's a power vacuum. He's somehow manoeuvred himself into the kind of position that your likes of Ron Noades had in the 80s and 90s. What he says is how the club runs.

He signed Fabio Silva, he appointed Bruno Lage, he has decided that Sudu (fake company) should make our kit with Debet (a fake betting company) as main sponsor and he is behind the astronomical ticket prices - worth repeating, 64% higher now behind the goals than in 2018, a summer when we signed Jonny, Joao Moutinho, Rui Patricio and Raul Jimenez.

They can appoint someone competent to run the club, or they can keep him with the inevitable results as he doesn't know what he's doing.

I'm not so sure - isn't it Guo personally in Sudu? He's also the one linked up with Mendes and his wife has Grasshoppers. Convenient way for the big cheese to move money around. He certainly loved it when he stood behind me season before last.

 

[Squeak]

I can assure you that no-one at Fosun above Jeff Shi gives a shit about Wolves unless it looks like we might go down (because seriously, a good 70%+ of the value of Wolverhampton Wanderers is predicated on us being a Premier League club), and there's no-one below him at the club who has any authority to properly challenge him let alone overrule him.

It's a power vacuum. He's somehow manoeuvred himself into the kind of position that your likes of Ron Noades had in the 80s and 90s. What he says is how the club runs.

He signed Fabio Silva, he appointed Bruno Lage, he has decided that Sudu (fake company) should make our kit with Debet (a fake betting company) as main sponsor and he is behind the astronomical ticket prices - worth repeating, 64% higher now behind the goals than in 2018, a summer when we signed Jonny, Joao Moutinho, Rui Patricio and Raul Jimenez.

They can appoint someone competent to run the club, or they can keep him with the inevitable results as he doesn't know what he's doing.

How can you assure me? That may well be how you think and would like me to think but I'm pretty sure you don't have access to Shi or the higher echelons at Wolves who might support your view.

I can concede that is how you might think about it given what you see but that is your opinion. Not saying it is wrong by the way. Just questioning your assurance.

 

[AndyWolves]

It evolves to be perfectly honest.

I don't believe Shi or Fosun are our enemy. I do believe that they too want success for our football club both on the field and financially. I have to believe that because I don't see a win for them if that is not what they want.

Naturally, disagreements will happen as to how success might be achieved. They had huge success originally but then sustaining the club in the Prem. has proved far more difficult than they thought it would, I suspect.

Further, the football world is always evolving. We've seen clubs cheat the financial restraints put into place and we've also suffered when being relatively successful because we couldn't continue to fund more players to support more success.

So, I try to understand the difficulty that any owner has of a Premiership football team.

I totally understand the dismay around the new pricing. I think it has been handled poorly but generally speaking you will always upset someone when increasing prices. It's inevitable but the way they have done this has been so so poor. But, here's my caveat, only they know the true financial picture at present and they have shown they are still prepared to invest in the team. Or that is how it appears now. The end of the transfer window will tell the final story.

So what can they do?

Deutsch touched on it with the comment about lying to fans. Under no circumstances can they do that. They built a lot of good faith and trust with the fan base initially and we had some fantastic years. I think they need to go back and study that and see what they did right then as well as communicate with the fans more often.

I think communicating more often and being more transparent is essential in garnering trust.

I'd also like to see more community events and a better PR department that actually gets ahead of the message rather than reacting to it. It's not difficult to be pro-active rather than reactive in this regard. A hands up "this is where we messed up and how we are trying not to repeat those mistakes" goes a long long way. People are generally forgiving when someone accepts responsibility. And that is what Shi needs to do more often and more openly rather than listing reasons or excuses for decisions. People will understand that mistakes are made. We are all human. Acknowledge them and try to do better.

I'll not go further for now but I have a few other things but I'm honestly more interested in your views.

I think the root of most problems come down to what Fosun want to achieve with Wolves, and what we see is that desire play out.

If the strategy wants to achieve something, then what we're seeing is the execution of that strategy. I firmly believe if Jeff was going against Fosun strategy he'd be out

So either Fosun change what they want from Wolves, or the owners of Wolves needs to change.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't know what you want me to say.

You can accept what I say in reasonably good faith (and there'll be enough people on here who'll tell you I don't make crap up, this is stuff I've been told by multiple decent sources) or you can doubt it. Makes no real difference to me but I'm not in the business of stirring up a hornets' nest for no reason and never have been.

 

[Squeak]

I think the root of most problems come down to what Fosun want to achieve with Wolves, and what we see is that desire play out.

If the strategy wants to achieve something, changing things operationally won't make a huge amount of difference.

So either Fosun change what they want from Wolves, or the owners of Wolves needs to change.

So what happens if they are content with the status quo? Obviously the fan base will never see it that way, but if they believe surviving in the Prem is our goal each season is good enough, then what? How do you ever satisfy the fans? Answer, for me, I don't think you ever can. And, perhaps that is what they have decided and are running with it regardless?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not so sure - isn't it Guo personally in Sudu? He's also the one linked up with Mendes and his wife has Grasshoppers. Convenient way for the big cheese to move money around. He certainly loved it when he stood behind me season before last.

His wife doesn't own Grasshoppers now (not that she ever really did)

The kind of money being shifted in the context of Fosun is like me deciding to put £50 a year extra in my ISA. He doesn't know anything and he doesn't care so long as we're in the top flight.