Evolution or revolution?

[Jabbawolf]

Been thinking about this, and heard the two words bandied about but wondered which direction we’re looking to go in - is it keeping a similar shape and just improving the quality of players, or are we open to more radical changes?

4 at the back?

No Coady, Moutinho?

AM sitting behind a front two?

Cashing in on Neves or Traore?


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[Alan]

We'll have to sack off Nuno before we'll ever see Wolves play four at the back again.

 

[Paul]

None of the above

Nothing more adventurous than 3-5-2

 

[Tony Towner]

All we needed to do was upgrade Saiss, Doherty and sign an AM. What we are doing in having centre halves step up and wing backs so far forwards seems unnecessary and I don't see it being fixed quickly. I think it needed a proper pre season rather than being done on the fly.

 

[Alan]

I don't think having the CBs step up would be a problem if Coady was also stepping up. Too many times against West Ham he was the deepest defender by about five yards. Can't happen.

 

[Deano]

All we needed to do was upgrade Saiss, Doherty and sign an AM. What we are doing in having centre halves step up and wing backs so far forwards seems unnecessary and I don't see it being fixed quickly. I think it needed a proper pre season rather than being done on the fly.

The problem is next summer will be a quick turn around again with the euros. Then there's the break the season after for the world cup. If Nuno wants to change style he can't wait 2 years until we get a proper pre season.

 

[Tredman]

Coady has been getting forward a little bit more. The idea of Boly and AN Other CB rotating into midfield is a good one - its worked well in the past but always been lopsided as only Boly could do it, and even then only on the left.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Coady crossed the half way line with the ball against West Ham. It was then I knew we were in trouble.

Honestly though, I don't get the hand wringing. We've been thumped before and recovered. We have had bad runs of results and recovered. We've played poorly and then next game ripped it up. Maybe Nuno is a decent enough coach to make it work, I don't know as there is so little to judge him on...

 

[Premier Quality]

I think we’re hitting the barrier that a lot of teams trying to be top 4 hit - when you’re good, teams will sit back and try and catch you on the break, so to score goals past them you have to push players up the pitch to keep pressure on and make chances.

That then means that they will play counter attack and you will have less players back to cope with them because you have committed them upfield, so those back players have to be comfortable defending one on one.

We’ve been the other way round, locking the defence and breaking with Raul/Traore/Jota, but our defenders are not yet ready to play the other way without cover. Neither Saiss or Coady are quick or amazing defenders.

I’m confident Nuno will find a halfway house where we push more than we did last year, but not so much that we leave one on ones at the back, once he’s had time to work the system. At some point though, we will need to upgrade in defence.

 

[sycophantia]

I think we’re hitting the barrier that a lot of teams trying to be top 4 hit - when you’re good, teams will sit back and try and catch you on the break, so to score goals past them you have to push players up the pitch to keep pressure on and make chances.

That then means that they will play counter attack and you will have less players back to cope with them because you have committed them upfield, so those back players have to be comfortable defending one on one.

We’ve been the other way round, locking the defence and breaking with Raul/Traore/Jota, but our defenders are not yet ready to play the other way without cover. Neither Saiss or Coady are quick or amazing defenders.

I’m confident Nuno will find a halfway house where we push more than we did last year, but not so much that we leave one on ones at the back, once he’s had time to work the system. At some point though, we will need to upgrade in defence.

Yep, think the halfway house style is most likely initially.....as the OP suggests, evolution rather than revolution

 

[Norman Deeley]

Nuno always has lots of very nice things to say about Sheff United. Is that what he's after? An upmarket Blades with the overlapping CBs?

 

[prawnking]

Honestly though, I don't get the hand wringing. We've been thumped before and recovered. We have had bad runs of results and recovered. We've played poorly and then next game ripped it up. Maybe Nuno is a decent enough coach to make it work, I don't know as there is so little to judge him on...

Apart from the obvious horror of the night itself, I think the response and inquest on here has been quite restrained and thoughtful actually.

We haven't really been properly thumped under Nuno that I can remember, probably the Chelsea 2-5, but never by a side as middling as West Ham, I think that's why it feels like a remarkable moment

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Been thinking about this, and heard the two words bandied about but wondered which direction we’re looking to go in - is it keeping a similar shape and just improving the quality of players, or are we open to more radical changes?

4 at the back?

No Coady, Moutinho?

AM sitting behind a front two?

Cashing in on Neves or Traore?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Traore to go RCB to come in. Otherwise that's it.

 

[Tony Towner]

Nuno always has lots of very nice things to say about Sheff United. Is that what he's after? An upmarket Blades with the overlapping CBs?

I don't think it's quite that, although Saiss did an O'Connell against Sheff Utd on occasion. I just think its an acknowledgement that as a predominantly counter attacking team, that's unlikely to take you to the next level and sees our respective lines being higher up the pitch as the way to do that. On Sunday it was clear we don't have the answer if we give the ball away though

 

[Tredman]

Apart from the obvious horror of the night itself, I think the response and inquest on here has been quite restrained and thoughtful actually.

We haven't really been properly thumped under Nuno that I can remember, probably the Chelsea 2-5, but never by a side as middling as West Ham, I think that's why it feels like a remarkable moment

Villa in the championship away was pretty similar.

 

[prawnking]

Villa in the championship away was pretty similar.

Yeah I'd forgotten that one (not living in the West Midlands probably helps!), they really seemed to have something to prove that night!

Tbh I think we're all second guessing Nuno on the evolution stuff because a. It's quite interesting and b. It makes a change from transfer shite!

Too small a sample size to really draw concrete conclusions as yet. I think we'll know more by the time we get to the Leicester game, which is our next biggest paper test

 

[Del Woppio]

I'm not convinced our back three is good enough 1v1 to have the midfield 4 any further forward tbh, and in a 343 the central two just don't have the combined mobility - meaning that either attack or defence is going to be isolated. If we want to control and dominate games we need to play a 352, which obviously means one or even two of our 3 wide men playing out of position. I can't see a 343 being dominant unless it's with neto and podence both tucked right in almost as floating #10s and then Neves and Joao both sitting pretty deep to allow semedo and vinagre more license to get forward and less responsibility at the back, but even that concerns me really given problems coady has when the gap between him and his centre backs isn't filled by a genuine DM.

It's a proper conundrum and I don't think it's going to be solved with the current players. If he wants to change styles, we're going to need to do more than just change the right back.

 

[Tony Towner]

Maybe not sell your joint best suited forward player in a 352. I got it if the lopsided 343 or lopsided 3412 is the future, but not if we are going to go 352

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I actually think a Xmas tree formation would do it

Rui
New RCB Coady Boly

Semedo Neves Dendonker Marcal
Neto Podence
Raul

 

[PuntsWolf]

I'm not convinced our back three is good enough 1v1 to have the midfield 4 any further forward tbh, and in a 343 the central two just don't have the combined mobility - meaning that either attack or defence is going to be isolated. If we want to control and dominate games we need to play a 352, which obviously means one or even two of our 3 wide men playing out of position. I can't see a 343 being dominant unless it's with neto and podence both tucked right in almost as floating #10s and then Neves and Joao both sitting pretty deep to allow semedo and vinagre more license to get forward and less responsibility at the back, but even that concerns me really given problems coady has when the gap between him and his centre backs isn't filled by a genuine DM.

It's a proper conundrum and I don't think it's going to be solved with the current players. If he wants to change styles, we're going to need to do more than just change the right back.

That’s how 3-4-3 should be played. Your forwards play inside the the width of the penalty area and WBs provide width. The forwards playing inverted cutting in and combing with the CF. This is what we did in the championship. Neves and Saiss never really got forward, Douglas and Doc stayed wide, Cav, Costa, Jota played inverted.

Saiss and Neves dropped into WB positions to cover when going forward, occasionally Saiss or Ndiaye would get forward into the box.

Now we tried this when we first got promoted, but after the bad run “shut up shop” and it’s been like that since. Now theoretically with better players there’s no reason we can’t just do the same again but Traore can’t/won’t do what’s required so we play inverted WBs instead.

Simply just play Podence and Neto, with Donck behind doing the Ndiaye work. We literally did it to good effect against Sheff Utd. Hopefully with a full squad to pick from we go back to it