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The NFL Thread

Tony Towner

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Literally talked himself put of a job. They were going to give him another year based on the injuries they've had and the bad roster construction. Then his press conferences in the last couple of weeks have been bizarre talking about clown shows and players from other teams ringing him up saying they wished they were playing for him.

This finally did for him

 

PuntsWolf

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I hadn’t seen that. Why didn’t they at least spread 5 wide? Running a sneak with every player in the box? Madness
 

Alan

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The coaches listed in the article you posted were all terrible.

Florida have sacked Flores because they want somebody else not because of his colour and I think that's a mistake on their part.

The Giants keeping Judge is plain bizarre as everybody but the owner hates him.

I will concede there is clearly some truth in black coaches not coming through and nobody seems to explain this. It's the same with GM's which are left out of the article.

I like the coaching pathway in college and the NFL and like that you don't have to play the game itself which is where our football is wrong.

I don't know why more people of colour aren't coaching, could it be as simple as people not doing the qualifications?
This is the mistake you're making. Racism in 2022 is not usually as easy as "I dislike this person because they are Black so I will fire them". If that was still what was going on, Flores would never have been hired.

The fact remains that when you control for record or performance, Black coaches are consistently shown to be more fireable, less promotable, and less hireable than their White counterparts. I.E., all else being equal, race plays a significant role in how long you'll keep your HC job in the NFL.

Further, it is indisputable that the Lions got worse after firing Jim Caldwell, the Bears got worse after firing Lovie Smith, etc. Interesting to note then that they were all replaced by White coaches who were all immediate downgrades, sometimes catastrophically so (Patricia, anyone?). So what was it that convinced the owners that these replacements were actually going to improve things, I wonder?

It won't have been "he's White, hire him". But race is impactful to one's career outcomes even if explicit racism is never encountered. This is what makes structural racism so difficult to overcome: you can't simply wait for someone to say the N word, you have to observe the patterns that emerge from their actions over time. In the NFL, those patterns tell us unequivocally that Black coaches will be valued less than White ones by team owners.

We have to ask ourselves why race is a statistically significant variable in the equation at all.
 
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Alan

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That'll likely be the last I say on the topic as I am never good at talking about it without getting overly emotional and I'd hate to ruin what has been probably the friendliest period of time between us, Johnny. Would rather keep that going than talk in endless circles over the race debate. :)
 

Johnny75

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I think your making this about race and are using it for confirmation bias.

Those coaches you list all had their own issues and Caldwell failed with a superb set of Lions, of that there is no doubt.

Who knows why Chicago does what it does and Florida have clearly moved Flores out for somebody they think will do better. They did after all have a pretty poor season and Flores only got them moving in the latter half of the season.

To dismiss those factors and make it all about race is far too simplistic an argument.

I'm keen to know why you think there are no black coaches coming through and saying it's racism doesn't really stack up unless you can prove there's coaches of colour being overlooked like Kaepernick blatantly was shut out (that's blatant racism).

I don't deny there is racism somewhere in the NFL but I'm curious as to know where and I don't subscribe to the theory that it's best to put a white man in charge, particularly as they're paid less than the stars they manage. Life isn't as simple as that.
 

Alan

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Suppose it goes back to the idea that non-racist people can do very racist things.

But I do respect the heck out of you, Johnny, and it's clear you do put a lot of thought into this, which is more than I can say for most folks I speak to (not here, more other Americans). Which is precisely why I know I should step back from the convo at this point for fear of letting it get personal.

Trying to be cognizant of my limits and all that. But definitely an interesting discussion that I may want to pick up with you in person when I'm over there.
 

Tony Towner

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Last year 3 of the 4 Superbowls coordinators were black. None of them getting hired isn't really consistent with the normal hiring cycle (the white one didn't either)
 

Alan

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Yep, and hilariously a reporter after last year's SB asked Byron Leftwich about the Buc's defensive gameplan.

Because Leftwich and actual Buc's DC Todd Bowles look so similar. :rolleyes:

Can't imagine what it must have been like to be a Super Bowl Champion OC and still get a white reporter thinking he was some other Black guy.
 

Alan

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Tell you what, I thought Burrow would be good, but for him to be this good coming off a torn up knee is really something else.
 

Tony Towner

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I think it's Metal that says the draft is just a crap shoot. Well Burrow was the number 1 last year and Chase the number 1 WR going high for a WR this year
 

Alan

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I’ve said he needed to earn that word. He’s not doing half bad just now.
 

Dire Wolf

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I’ve said he needed to earn that word. He’s not doing half bad just now.
No, you said the Bills were thinking of moving on from him because he wasn't good enough. Just admit it, you're so far wrong you're like Wrongy McWrong from Wrongtown. Allen is a bona-fide superstar.
 

Tony Towner

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Next week is the big test for Allen, good measurement of his growth would leading his team to victory in Kansas City
 
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