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Wolves 0-2 Brentford: Verdict Thread

Jasperwolf

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I guess the question is, are our poor results down to bad luck, or just bad defending/finishing?

If the performances are there then it's one of them. If it's the latter, will we revert to the mean or will we continue to struggle consistently?

People can come down on either camp or a bit of both. I still insist that the sample size is too small to know for sure. I'm not really counting last season's finishing as we barely created anything and weren't looking like winning half the time.
We are certainly creating more. We cant finish for some reason at the moment. Now Adama never could finish if you look at his career goals. But Raul certainly can, It took him a while when he first came to find his scoring boots but then went on a run. I think he scuffed one under a keeper to start the ball rolling. That could well happen again. Trincao can obviously finish , he just hasn't. Hwang already has a goal and has shown potential. We know Neto can score but he is a while away. Fabio is not a natural finisher or poacher either positionally or instinctively for me; some may disagree, but I have not seen it in his time here and he has had plenty of chance toi show it. Hwang already looks more instinctive than Fabio with his runs and positioning , for instance. Semedo has done everything but score and himn getting into those positions is a positive under Lage. RAN can hit the target but has not been used. Neves is famed for his shooting ability but hasn't scored one of those for ages so hopefully , with him further up that will happen. Dendoncker misses more than he scores but has the legs to get into those positions. Moutinho scores once in a blue moon. Then you're up with defenders of whom Saiss is probably the most threatening, but only at set pieces and our set pieces are crap. Kilman has never scored and Coady scores for England more than he does for us! Boly can score so who knows.

So with that we are a team that play well enough to create chances now and decent ones , but cant finish them off. Now I would say that's confidence as much if not more than ability. Can I see us getting points off the top 10 teams Deutsch wolf mentions on another thread? Yes, I think we can and we will. Probably 6 with, a win and 3 draws. That leaves 9 other teams to get 34 points from to hit the mythical 40 points, So Burnley, Norwich ,Newcastle , Southampton, Watford, Brentford, Leeds, Palace, Brighton we need to beat at least once and draw the other. We are down already against Brentford but you would hope to win the home fixture against Watford. If we perform any way close to how we played in our first three or four games then it is very unlikely that we wont get 9 wins from those fixtures. Brentford was a collective aberration, I hope , not to be repeated for a long while. But Lage does need to recognise where it went wrong and it starts with the midfield pairing against a midfield three. Lage does not have the credit in the bank that Nuno had , which is why he needs this squad to click for him and quickly. Hwang could be key to that on early showing, as could the use of Dendoncker in place of Moutinho. Jaoa still has plenty to offer but is bypassed in a 3-4-3 as he is stuck betwixed or between. His legs are not going to improve at 35.

I think it would be folly to try 4 at the back. We just don't have the players at the moment. its 343 or 352 for me. Traore is still an enigma and I would use him off the bench against tired defenders, so I would start 352 and give us more in midfield and play more centrally to allow attacking wing backs to move into space.

Sa
Kilman Coady Boly
Semedo Dendoncker Neves RAN
Podence
Hwang Raul

That leaves you with Saiss, Marcal and Moutinho as midfield cover/ defensive cover- Traore , Trincao and Fabio as offensive options off the bench. We know the squad needed adding too but that hasnt happened . You play the hand you have been dealt but you can still play it effectively.

Finally, I did expect better against Brentford. But I also expected zero from Spurs, Leicester and Man United- Yet we had zero run of the ball or luck against those three teams. The next two games are key. I think if we get 4 points then confidence will improve from the fans and within the team. If we lose both then we are destined for a long hard season.

Sorry its a long post. I have been musing on this since Saturday.
 

Tony Towner

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We can't play 352 imo unless we go back to the underlapping fullbacks. Pointless having Semedo and RAN going down the outside when they can't cross. It might work, but I'd prefer to try and fashion a back 4 first and go 4231, but would agree it's doubtful one exists. It's why I'd try it tomorrow night
 

Jasperwolf

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We can't play 352 imo unless we go back to the underlapping fullbacks. Pointless having Semedo and RAN going down the outside when they can't cross
I am happy for that. The positions Semedo got into against Watford show he can do that. RAN is a little harder to read but again not a huge leap. I agree , our crossing is awful and very easy to defend against. The key for me is that a front 2 form some partnership like Jota and Raul so , fingers crossed its Hwang!
 

jd1981

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Why do people think it’s a given we should lose to Leicester, Spurs and Man Utd? I then assume you right off Chelsea, Man City & Liverpool?
Puts 12 games a season in the bin pretty much means games like Saturday you’ve got to get something.
 

AndyWolves

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Why do people think it’s a given we should lose to Leicester, Spurs and Man Utd? I then assume you right off Chelsea, Man City & Liverpool?
Puts 12 games a season in the bin pretty much means games like Saturday you’ve got to get something.

It's what I expect to get from games. I don't expect to get anything from the games you mentioned, if we do then I'm pleasantly surprised.

It's not writing them off, it's being realistic, managing expectations if you will.

I also don't prepare the team or tell them it's a free hit so what I think shouldn't affect the teams approach in any way.
 

AndyWolves

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Take Leicester as an example, we've talked to death on here about how poor we've been in the last 6 transfer windows and how we haven't improved our squad

Leicester are held up as the example we'd all like to follow and have improved their squad with some pretty astute buys over multiple transfer windows.

But, when we play them we ignore this and still expect to get a result?
 

Wilf Wolf

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Why do people think it’s a given we should lose to Leicester, Spurs and Man Utd? I then assume you right off Chelsea, Man City & Liverpool?
Puts 12 games a season in the bin pretty much means games like Saturday you’ve got to get something.
There’s a huge difference between “writing off” and not expecting any points. Leicester away has always been a tough fixture for us, Man United have improved massively since we beat them regularly. A point in any of the three opening fixtures would have been great given Lage inevitably needs time to mould the team to play in a completely different way. As it was we performed very well in all three games and deserved at least a draw in each proving that writing these games off is as ridiculous as expecting to beat the likes of Brentford.
 

SSB

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If I had the mindset that I expected to lose any game we play I don’t think I’d personally bother going week in week out to be honest.
 

Wilf Wolf

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If I had the mindset that I expected to lose any game we play I don’t think I’d personally bother going week in week out to be honest.
There's a big difference between hope and expectation. If I had no hope I'd agree following any team would be pointless.
 

PuntsWolf

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I’d say 2 points from those 3 games was par. Anything less poor. Although we did all this yesterday.

The results were poor but was mitigated by good performances. But now we need points.
 

jd1981

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Did I go to the Spurs game expecting to lose? No not really I expected us to be good enough to at least get a point.
 

Jinky

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Caught up on MOTD last night. The difference between us and Villa is night and day at the moment, let alone the likes of Leicester, Man Utd etc.

Ings looks twice the player Raul is (currently), they’ve got loads of goals from midfield - their full backs look threatening in the attacking areas and can cross (Matty Cash being one). As DW said earlier in the thread, we’ve allowed them to overtake us.

It doesn’t mean we should be writing games off, it’s just being realistic of where we are, on the pitch (off it we’ve gone miles backwards, sadly) compared to our rivals.

It all boils down to Jeff Shi and the fact he and his team have failed to improve us on the pitch since we were promoted.
 

Jasperwolf

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In no way will I write off games but to me bookmakers make money for a reason. Realistically anyone independent would not back wolves to win against Spurs, Man United or Leicester. As an example, Lawro didnt on his predictions for the BBC. We played well in all three games and were very unlucky not to get something from each of them. He did back us to beat Watford and Brentford. So we are underperforming results wise, in one game so far. Hardly a crisis , yet. As I said , the next two games are very important.
 

Jasperwolf

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Did I go to the Spurs game expecting to lose? No not really I expected us to be good enough to at least get a point.
You could argue bad finishing stopped us from getting 3. But thats where we are at the moment.
 

Jasperwolf

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Missing chances isn't bad luck, it's poor execution.
I agree but feel the point still stands that if we play as well as we did against Spurs Man U and Leicester for the rest of the season ( starting with this weekend and Newcastle) we are likely to get points from our next two games. Our worst two games are Watford and Brentford and we have 3 points to show from them. We do need to finish and we need to be more clinical. Luck has nothing to do with that.
 

Jinky

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If anything we raise our game and performances against the ‘big’ sides, and our levels drop against teams we “should” beat. That’s a mindset thing and it needs to change very quickly or we’ll be in big trouble.
 

Deutsch Wolf

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I don't think mindset came into it on Saturday. Fundamentally we can't defend very well (doesn't help when we leave our best defender on the bench - I really hate the "don't change a winning team" fallacy, stop waiting for inferior players to fuck up before you drop them, it means we lose) and we can't score.

This makes us a pretty rubbish team, in basic terms.
 

Tony Towner

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It's more the mindset of the opposition. A Utd will let us have the ball, a Brentford won't.
 
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