Yackity Yack, Let's Talk Zack

[Del Woppio]

Some fucker's got to do it.

Membership - 67k to 125k. Polling gone from 8% up towards 15%.

I like him. I've always liked the Greens - I even stood for them local elections once - but felt they were too focussed on climate and nature to get anywhere nationally; he's definitely changing that narrative, going hard on the economy and cost of living, and I'm sure his policies will poll very well. It's absolute essential that the Corbyn/Sultana party stays out of his fucking way.

 

[visage]

Agree with all that - and agree with your last statement 1000000%.

Can the greens ever win actual power? Probably not. But they can certainly be a powerful influence, and if the polls stay the way they are they could be kingmakers in a future hung parliament. Maybe a Lab-Green coalition.

I fully expect that to be used as a scare tactic by the Tories/Reform - that a vote for Labour will put 'crazy eco warrior zack' in power.

 

[EpsomWolf]

What a state of affairs. Reform and the Greens. Suppose it was inevitable given the polarisation and the fact everyone has to be a direct action activist these days and hate everyone else.

Farage and the civil war brigade will be loving this. Manna from heaven and an unlimited supply of ammo for them.

With the Greens I suppose they’ll at least give you a bloody good laugh. Going to be a hell of a watch this.

 

[Tredman]

What a state of affairs. Reform and the Greens. Suppose it was inevitable given the polarisation and the fact everyone has to be a direct action activist these days and hate everyone else.

Farage and the civil war brigade will be loving this. Manna from heaven and an unlimited supply of ammo for them.

With the Greens I suppose they’ll at least give you a bloody good laugh. Going to be a hell of a watch this.

Why?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Farage and the civil war brigade will be loving this. Manna from heaven and an unlimited supply of ammo for them.

They've gone pretty much unchallenged for over a decade now, they will not like being pulled up on their bullshit at all, particularly as there is no substance to it. It falls down under any scrutiny at all.

However that Rupert Lowe post yesterday shows that those particular people are just cunts, awful, awful people.

 

[Langers]

It's really refreshing that the Greens are getting a little bit of momentum (no pun intended) at the moment, and they're much more visible in the media since Polanski took charge. It's badly needed with all the various degrees of right leaning parties polluting everything both at home and abroad. I really like him - he speaks well, with honesty and integrity. That should be the default for a politician but as we all know, that's simply not the case these days.

I didn't think there'd be any viable option for me to vote for - Labour have badly let me down, the alternatives are even worse so I'd absolutely love it if this Green Party renaissance continued and they were actually able to influence things on both a local and national level.

 

[BillyDee]

Their campaigning at the last GE was very focused, on places where they were likely to get a seat and not so much nationwide.

I think their problem might be that the centre right are more likely to vote Reform than the centre left will be to vote Green.

 

[Langers]

Oh btw, kudos to @Del Woppio for the thread title

 

[EpsomWolf]

Why?

Farage needs to present the Left as the problem. Same as Elon did with great effect. Move away from supposedly showing the public the very things the government are desperate for you not to see or make known (asylum seekers raping women in parks or whatever) to the Left being the facilitators of all of those problems. A sort of, wok-cooking, futon-sleeping Green-haired activist with a placard saying ‘asylum seekers welcome’ is the reason your children aren’t safe kind of thing. The right are going to need fuel and unfortunately the Greens are going to provide that in spades. Not exactly going to be difficult making them look like a load of oddjobs and dreamers unfortunately.

But the hard left, Antifa and the mobilisation of activists has already shown they’re fighting back and are up for it. Easy for those on either side with agendas to extrapolate that to being on the verge of civil war, societal collapse or etc etc, but even allowing for that there are at the very least some serious warning signs. Not sure what you can do though when you can’t sit back but taking the fight forward only makes things worse but it looks like that’s where we are unfortunately.

 

[Tredman]

Farage needs to present the Left as the problem. Same as Elon did with great effect. Move away from supposedly showing the public the very things the government are desperate for you not to see or make known (asylum seekers raping women in parks or whatever) to the Left being the facilitators of all of those problems. A sort of, wok-cooking, futon-sleeping Green-haired activist with a placard saying ‘asylum seekers welcome’ is the reason your children aren’t safe kind of thing. The right are going to need fuel and unfortunately the Greens are going to provide that in spades. Not exactly going to be difficult making them look like a load of oddjobs and dreamers unfortunately.

But the hard left, Antifa and the mobilisation of activists has already shown they’re fighting back and are up for it. Easy for those on either side with agendas to extrapolate that to being on the verge of civil war, societal collapse or etc etc, but even allowing for that there are at the very least some serious warning signs. Not sure what you can do though when you can’t sit back but taking the fight forward only makes things worse but it looks like that’s where we are unfortunately.

Antifa = Anti-fascists = Winston Churchill and friends... odd how 'patriots' present them as the enemy. Its a US term which is rightly derided as nonsense in the UK. Its a poor part of any argument.

I think you also underestimate how much of the UK hates the concept of Elon etc too.,

 

[visage]

Grrr....antifa...

 

[EpsomWolf]

Antifa = Anti-fascists = Winston Churchill and friends... odd how 'patriots' present them as the enemy. Its a US term which is rightly derided as nonsense in the UK. Its a poor part of any argument.

I think you also underestimate how much of the UK hates the concept of Elon etc too.,

It’s simply about where with think all of these factors, strategies, influencers, financiers, mouthpieces, etc will take us.

My view is the direction of travel will only result in further polarisation, ultimately benefiting the right. If the left think it’s a direction of travel that benefits them, then crack on.

Either way, I’ll wager things get a whole lot worse before they get better, if they get better at all.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

It’s simply about where with think all of these factors, strategies, influencers, financiers, mouthpieces, etc will take us.

My view is the direction of travel will only result in further polarisation, ultimately benefiting the right. If the left think it’s a direction of travel that benefits them, then crack on.

Either way, I’ll wager things get a whole lot worse before they get better, if they get better at all.

But what are you suggesting? That there is no counter argument to the right?

That's what we've had for the majority of the last 10-15 years, and look where we are now!

 

[sycophantia]

But what are you suggesting? That there is no counter argument to the right?

That's what we've had for the majority of the last 10-15 years, and look where we are now!

I think what he's trying to say (apologies if I'm wrong) is that the alternatives to the right wing of politics are so outlandish to a fairly high proportion of the electorate that they are making themselves unelectable.

 

[EpsomWolf]

But what are you suggesting? That there is no counter argument to the right?

That's what we've had for the majority of the last 10-15 years, and look where we are now!

I’m suggesting absolutely everyone is now stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The underpinnings of this are in the early successes of direct action and sophisticated coordinated campaigns, cancel culture, XR wreaking havoc and so on. All justified on the basis conventional lobbying, protest etc didn’t achieve results. In fact less than 5 minutes away from where I’m sat right now is a plaque marking the very spot where a woman threw herself in front of the Kings horse in the often cited justification of today’s actions and why accepting differing opinions and the results of the ballot box every 4 or 5 years is no longer an option. But imv there is a space for respecting differing views and said ballot box outcomes, and recognising fighting with ferocious activism has some merits but brings a lot of unintended consequences too.

I’m just of a view we’ve tipped into the unhealthy dangerous side of all that but each of us will have our own views on that one.

But to try and find hope, I was laughed out of the place a while ago by suggesting the right and left might eventually have a coming together over the prickly subject of free speech, governmental control, I.D cards etc which both sides are now experiencing the negative impacts of. I think there’s an inevitable conclusion in face-covering bans, and whatever else it takes to bring some sort of structured big-brother control and order which ultimately affects everyone. Funnily enough I’m not as bothered as some about that but for those who are it’s a real problem.

Who knows, I certainly don’t. It’s the only glimmer of hope in an otherwise depressing outlook, but it’s one from the heart and if anyone’s got a more positive take I’d appreciate their efforts in taking the time to explain it.

 

[visage]

It’s simply about where with think all of these factors, strategies, influencers, financiers, mouthpieces, etc will take us.

My view is the direction of travel will only result in further polarisation, ultimately benefiting the right. If the left think it’s a direction of travel that benefits them, then crack on.

Either way, I’ll wager things get a whole lot worse before they get better, if they get better at all.

We shouldnt fight the right, as that would help them?

What are you suggesting we do then? Join them?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We shouldnt fight the right, as that would help them?

It's exactly this that has enabled Brexit and Farage, the arrogance that "they're so stupid, we should just ignore them" is why we are where we are.

All those politicians who have just refused to engage in their bullshit, racist arguments about immigration or whatever because they don't want the hassle are as much to blame as Farage himself.

As an aside, I saw some gammon twat claiming their are "robot dogs" guarding a 5 star hotel full of rapist immigrants yesterday.

No one challenged it, 100s liked it though. FML.

 

[Lupo]

their are "robot dogs" guarding a 5 star hotel full of rapist immigrants yesterday.

No one challenged it, 100s liked it though. FML.

Its true, I've seen one

 

[EpsomWolf]

We shouldnt fight the right, as that would help them?

What are you suggesting we do then? Join them?

It’s not for me to find solutions, I’m not fighting anyone, I’m done with all that.

It’s up to whoever is effectively ‘losing’ to assess their methods and strategies. I’ve given the reasons why I think we are where we are and why it’s only going to get worse.

If you think you’re ‘winning’ so to speak, then absolutely crack on. If you don’t, then it seems a bit daft ploughing on with something that pushes your goals even further away. That’s a far cry from saying don’t fight or give up and join them of course, but I don’t see any alternative successful strategy but more worrying those carrying the fight forward don’t seem to either.

 

[Tredman]

It's exactly this that has enabled Brexit and Farage, the arrogance that "they're so stupid, we should just ignore them" is why we are where we are.

All those politicians who have just refused to engage in their bullshit, racist arguments about immigration or whatever because they don't want the hassle are as much to blame as Farage himself.

As an aside, I saw some gammon twat claiming their are "robot dogs" guarding a 5 star hotel full of rapist immigrants yesterday.

No one challenged it, 100s liked it though. FML.

Equally sneering at people for being thick doesn't help. I don't think you do this but there are a few on here who do.

The way some people express themselves is poor and they have been directed by people like Farage to blame scapegoats - that doesn't change the fact though that austerity has massively harmed a very large section of our society and their inarticulateness has led many to mock them.