Jeremy Corbyn

[Sniffer]

Oh yes but my point is this...A few years ago HS1 was instigated. The money was plowed into "improving" the infrastructure in and around London until the money ran out. We now come to HS2 and do they start by spending the money on the rail network on the West Coast and down to London? NOPE, they spend the money in and around London...AGAIN...Until it runs out and there will still be no improvement on the WCML

Not strictly true Darlo there is a bit of money making its way up here. My local MP managed to sell off his house to the government as it was close enough to the original route. I can't understand why he didn't bother to turn up at the meeting arranged last night in his constituency to discuss the new route which sees many more homes that will be blighted by its construction and operation.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Which doesn't work. Where I work, less than 50% of the workforce are in a union, just five years ago it was 65%, and yes the union agreed wage agreement would not be bettered in favour of non union members, but there are many other ways to achieve better conditions.

Unite have now resorted to offering reduced monthly dues in an attempt to stop the flood of Alliance Healthcare workers leaving the union.

I am not a member of a trade union, and have no intention of being one. Union barons say one thing and do the other. The late Mr Crow is a good example of this. Earning a fortune, getting his members to go on strike and lose money, while he was sunning himself.

Mr Crow's members enjoyed very good wages and terms and conditions of employment. He tended to say one thing and do it. Other than that a good example.

What other ways are there to achieve better conditions that are consistently more successful than collective bargaining?

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Mr Crow's members enjoyed very good wages and terms and conditions of employment. He tended to say one thing and do it. Other than that a good example.

What other ways are there to achieve better conditions that are consistently more successful than collective bargaining?

Mr Crows members achieved nowhere near the wages and conditions enjoyed by Mr Crow and other union barons.

Amazing as it may seem to you, but nowadays employers are prepared to talk to employees who prefer not to be in a union. Something I and other people at Alliance Healthcare have found out to our advantage. The unions need to realise that the days of Red Robbo and Scargill have long gone, as have tea and sandwiches at Downing Streeet.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Mr Crows members achieved nowhere near the wages and conditions enjoyed by Mr Crow and other union barons.

Amazing as it may seem to you, but nowadays employers are prepared to talk to employees who prefer not to be in a union. Something I and other people at Alliance Healthcare have found out to our advantage. The unions need to realise that the days of Red Robbo and Scargill have long gone, as have tea and sandwiches at Downing Streeet.

Of course they didn't get the wages or Bob Crow was effectively the Chief Executive of the organisation - his members....well, they weren't working at that level, with his responsibility and unique skills. They were drivers, conductors, cleaners...unless of course you are advocating some socialist utopia where everyone gets paid the same? Even The Telegraph acknowledged that Bob Crow's salary was "merited". Do you not like people earning a fair wage or is it just union people you think shouldn't earn a fair wage?

It isn't "amazing" at all that employers want to talk to their employees, good employers do that and most employers are generally good, but sometimes they do things that are not good for their employees. When Alliance Healthcare proposed to close the distribution site in Livingston a couple of months ago, what did you do to help protect the jobs of people who worked there? Or did you do nothing because it wasn't your job under threat? If you did nothing, who was it that the workers there turned to to act on their behalf, to scrutinise the proposals, to try and protect their jobs? David from Lincoln or a trade union and it's "barons"?

It's 2016, Red Robbo and Scargill are your generation, not mine. If you live in the past then it is no wonder your opinion is so skewed.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I live in Hinckley, Leicestershire, my second and favoured home is in Lincolnshire.

And what unique skills do you need to call your membears out on strike while sunning yourself in foreign climes. Surely at such a crucial time he should have been with his members on the picket line, even Scargill did that, albeit he did it for publicity.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I live in Hinckley, Leicestershire, my second and favoured home is in Lincolnshire.

And what unique skills do you need to call your membears out on strike while sunning yourself in foreign climes. Surely at such a crucial time he should have been with his members on the picket line, even Scargill did that, albeit he did it for publicity.

Ah yes, the 2014 holiday. The favourite haunt of any vehemently anti-trade unionist when they are running out of other petty generalisations.

Bob Crow, increased wages during a time of austerity, protected jobs - particularly for the low paid, improved health and safety, got more members in the union - seems like he did a pretty good job for the people he was representing. I don't agree with his politics but I can't fail to recognise he was extremely good at what he did.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Ah yes, the 2014 holiday. The favourite haunt of any vehemently anti-trade unionist when they are running out of other petty generalisations.

Bob Crow, increased wages during a time of austerity, protected jobs - particularly for the low paid, improved health and safety, got more members in the union - seems like he did a pretty good job for the people he was representing. I don't agree with his politics but I can't fail to recognise he was extremely good at what he did.

The 2014 Holiday... I have owned properties in Lincolnshire for several years.

If Mr Crow and the unions have done a such a great job why has union membership fallen? I suppose that is the fault of the Conservatives.

 

[visage]

Looks like Corbyn is in good company:

 

[Premier Quality]

Ah yes, the 2014 holiday. The favourite haunt of any vehemently anti-trade unionist when they are running out of other petty generalisations.

Bob Crow, increased wages during a time of austerity, protected jobs - particularly for the low paid, improved health and safety, got more members in the union - seems like he did a pretty good job for the people he was representing. I don't agree with his politics but I can't fail to recognise he was extremely good at what he did.

in a very similar way to nigel farage, I'd say he was really effective, but a bit of a scorched earth legacy. He ramped up costs and wages so far that before too long most of those jobs will go and there will be driverless trains on the underground. Its why the unions are fighting the southern stuff so hard - once its definitively proven the drivers can close doors on their own, there will be less union members available...

 

[thehistorymakers]

I would have thought driverless trains, would be easier to operate, than driverless cars. They only go forwards and backward. Speed and breaking can be operated automatically. Maybe they will have a centralised operating centre, that can override the computers, if a fault is detected. A matter of time, I would have thought.
I think someone on a train supervising and answering customer's queries, would be more useful in the long run, than drivers.

 

[Jolemai]

Well this is interesting:

Corbyn critic Jaime Reed quits as Labour MP, triggering tight byelection race

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Santa Claus to Jeremy Corbyn:

Santa - what do you want for Christmas?

Corbyn - I want a dragon.

Santa - Come on Jezza, be realistic.

Corbyn - I want Labour to win the next general election, and for me to be the next prime minister.

Santa - What colour dragon do you want?

 

[visage]

Meanwhile the Tory party is Frank's puppet master.

 

[Jolemai]

Yawn

 

[Doctor Doog]

Posting potentially defamatory quotes without attributing them correctly opens the forum up to both copyright and libel actions. Unless of course those are Frank's own words, which would just leave him and the forum open to libel actions. I don't really care if Frank gets sued, it would probably teach him a lesson, but I would care if the forum got closed down.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

As the quotes come directly from a BBC story we are absolutely fine.

 

[Doctor Doog]

So we can take quotes directly from the BBC without attributing them? I'll transcribe the last episode of Sherlock and pass it off as my own then.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Don't be so bloody awkward. That isn't what I meant.

If you think quoting a website news article on a forum is going to get us closed down because of poor attribution I can only assume you work for a bunch of ambulance chasers.

Especially as you refer to defamation, and then your Sherlock point refers to intellectual property infringement. If I think the forum is in legal trouble I jump on it.

 

[lemonjelly]

So we can take quotes directly from the BBC without attributing them? I'll transcribe the last episode of Sherlock and pass it off as my own then.

Frank wouldn't be the first poster to c&p text and not attribute the source. IIRC someone else has been pulled up about it before. Might be wrong though.

 

[Doctor Doog]

Don't be so bloody awkward. That isn't what I meant.

If you think quoting a website news article on a forum is going to get us closed down because of poor attribution I can only assume you work for a bunch of ambulance chasers.

Especially as you refer to defamation, and then your Sherlock point refers to intellectual property infringement. If I think the forum is in legal trouble I jump on it.

Fair point - I'm glad you are keeping up with it, and you are more qualified than I am. I think you need to, because he does it all the time in order to be inflammatory. If you read my first post I refer to defamation and copyright - which as I understand it is different to IP (and I am paid to understand, with help from the lawyers, industrial process IP). I also know that if any of our literature was cut and pasted directly into someone else's publication without attribution, our lawyers would take a look at it.