• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

Jeremy Corbyn

Dire Wolf said:
Over 400,000 people signed up. In 3 days. That'll shortly pass the combined membership of Labour and Reform. Not all will actually become members I'd imagine, but it certainly shows the desire for change is there.

I'm sure our favourite shill will come along and remind us that Corbyn is a failure and we're all hero worshipping him and it's just a bunch of 'crank lefties'. 🤣🙄
Click to expand...
'Do you want to join a mailing list to support a party that's in favour of good things and is against bad things?'

Woop, 400k signatures!
 
visage said:
No. A better summary of my response would be 'Why didn't you care when other governments did bad things?'

Because, to follow your reasoning, if you only seemingly care about governments doing bad things when it's Israel, it can only lead to the conclusion that your concern isn't governments doing bad things, its just a dislike of Israel.

I've mentioned previously the Chinese genocide if the Uyghur muslims. The Syrian mass murders of Palestians. Neither amassed any significant protest. Why did Palestinian and Muslims lives only start to matter when it was an Israeli finger on the trigger?

None of this absolves any party, of course. It just seems that in the eyes of some people, some genocides are more worthy of condemnation than others.
Click to expand...
So we need to have an equal amount of posts/concern on every conflict there is out there? Otherwise we are all anti-Semitic, OK. Why haven’t you been posting about all these issues?

We are just going to go around in circles and I hate reading your posts as it is, so I’m just going to leave it there and put you on ignore (edit: ha, I can’t - I’ll just avoid this area of the forum as I had previously)
 
Visage is being disingenuous, he has been called out and has subtly shifted his attack lines. Quite transparent.

We are individuals in a world of billions, it is impossible to express opinions about every subject, every atrocity, every evil. We tend to coalesce around issues that are having an impact, directly or indirectly, on our own lives. Some of that will be due to the people we share our time with and their opinions, some of that will be shaped by what we see in the news…mainstream media, social media and conspiracies. Look at the news in any of those spheres and it is dominated by Trump, Gaza/Israel, Russia/Ukraine.

Any other story is at best on the fringes if mentioned at all. What we see and hear on a daily basis heavily influences the conversation. To infer, as Visage has done, that posters on here are lesser for not mentioning other atrocities and by extension questioning their motives as only being because “Israel is holding the trigger” should be seen for what it is and can be put into context by the frequency he posts about Corbyn, Israel and ant-semitism.

The United States and Israel also look like us. They are, in theory, examples of the world order we are part of, that we identify with, that we understand. Russia, China, Syria and similar are not like us - when we look at what they do we have almost been conditioned to see them as “bad” so are less likely to become the subject of debate and criticism. There is very little support for their actions in mainstream commentary whereas there is considerable (but declining) mainstream support for Israel.

That is why there is debate and discussion on the actions of Israel compared to the atrocities committed by others. It is not due to anti-semitism or hypocrisy, it is the normal flow of debate caused by the context and environment we live in.

He is also in a privileged position on this forum, a position that means he can cast his subtle slurs without consequences.
 
visage said:
'Do you want to join a mailing list to support a party that's in favour of good things and is against bad things?'

Woop, 400k signatures!
Click to expand...
You are truly pathetic. And I'll say why I think this.

The growth of interest in an alternative to what is happening is evidence that hundreds of thousands of people want change. They want to sign up to speak out for change, they want their voices heard amongst a deluge of right wing mainstream influenced garbage.

I signed up as a means of speaking out, not because I expect to change others, but because if I didn't sign up or speak out it means they've changed me.

And I don't want them to change me, to become the vile, jaded, cynic that you are whose only recourse is pathetic mockery, name calling and who takes glee in scorning the views of others who dare to hope for something better.

I think you are a vile, horrible human being who only shows up on a Wolves forum to post vile, unpleasant things. And I will continue to call you out, as it seems will many others.
 
Last edited:
206 pages criticising Israel. Nothing criticising China.

If that's not a double standard I don't know what is.
 
Dire Wolf said:
You are truly pathetic. And I'll say why I think this.

The growth of interest in an alternative to what is happening is evidence that hundreds of thousands of people want change. They want to sign up to speak out for change, they want their voices heard amongst a deluge of right wing mainstream influenced garbage.

I signed up as a means of speaking out, not because I expect to change others, but because if I didn't sign up or speak out it means they've changed me.

And I don't want them to change me, to become the vile, jaded, cynic that you are whose only recourse is pathetic mockery, name calling and who takes glee in scorning the views of others who dare to hope for something better.

I think you are a vile, horrible human being who only shows up on a Wolves forum to post vile, unpleasant things. And I will continue to call you out, as it seems will many others.
Click to expand...
20250727_105729.jpg
 
You're missing the point. I'm asking why concern over genocide seems wholly predicated on who the alleged perpetrators are.
 
Yes, he says it's because Israel is 'closer' to us in terms of our daily experiences.

It's probably the reason why the Rwanda genocide was similarly ignored.

I get the reason. I just don't think it's a very good one. It's also historically ignorant of the unique circumstances of Israel's existence, outlook and relationships with it's neighbours.
 
visage said:
Yes, he says it's because Israel is 'closer' to us in terms of our daily experiences.

It's probably the reason why the Rwanda genocide was similarly ignored.

I get the reason. I just don't think it's a very good one. It's also historically ignorant of the unique circumstances of Israel's existence, outlook and relationships with it's neighbours.
Click to expand...
That is only one part of what I said. I also didn't use the word 'closer', that is your interpretation of what I wrote.

Every other example you gave also have their own "unique circumstances" but that is not a reason to speak out or not speak about a particular situation. It is not "historically ignorant" to speak out against current atrocities and it is irrelevant whether I, or any other poster, speaks out about one atrocity but not another.

You are being called out for the way you infer motives on posters that they are anti-semetic for doing so, so far you have not disputed that this is your intention. You are the problem.
 
visage said:
See this is the problem. Im not pro Israel, any more than anyone can be pro any country.

I simply think that theres some fairly obvious double-standards going on when it comes to what Israel is doing, which gets rightly condemned, versus other countries that get a free pass. I think there are valid questions as to why that is.

Im not sure that makes me 'pro Israel'
Click to expand...


Name the so-called democratic countries that do what Israeli do.

Not the Chinas, North Koreas, or Saudis of this world....but the one's who at least pretend to adhere to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law.
 
The UK Government said it believed that an existing caveat, that “criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic”, was “sufficient to ensure freedom of speech”.

Our state's interpretation of the IHRA definition of anti-semitism does not have a caveat that any criticism of Israel must be followed and qualified by a similar criticism of another regime, only that the criticism is similar to that which is levelled against another regime.

If I believe that China's actions are similar i do not need to state that in order to make a similar accusation against the Government of Israel. You may enquire of me to test that these are my beliefs, but you may not assume I am anti-semetic because I do not express it. This is what you have done on here, repeatedly.
 
And yet people make assumptions as to my beliefs all the time.

How often, for example, have I been accused of supporting Israel's current actions?
 
visage said:
And yet people make assumptions as to my beliefs all the time.

How often, for example, have I been accused of supporting Israel's current actions?
Click to expand...
Whataboutery. You generally state an opinion about Israel alongside your slights against other posters. Its like a weapon in your armoury rather than a clearly stated (or strongly held) opinion.
 
My opinions aren't strongly held?

Again, you're just throwing out assumptions.
 
Your dislike of ad hominem attacks doesn't seem to extend to those directed at me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Del Woppio
Top strikers - the early years.
2
Replies
34
Views
4K
prawnking
P
D
They Wore The Shirt launch
Replies
0
Views
2K
dwarfio
D
Back
Top