Keir Starmer at it again..

[Elephant Pyjamas]

What was it someone said? Politically competent?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

We cannnot tax our way out of this - spurious nonsense about taxing the wealthy doesn't hold (our two patriotic billionaires Jim & James show that whatever you do they will just move their money away).

"Spurious nonsense"?

Na, not having this. Simply put, no government has tried hard enough, why would they?

It is far easier to fuck the poor, old and disabled over, so they've reverted to that, and all the mouth breathers love it, not realising they are turkeys cheering about Christmas coming.

 

[Tredman]

"Spurious nonsense"?

Na, not having this. Simply put, no government has tried hard enough, why would they?

It is far easier to fuck the poor, old and disabled over, so they've reverted to that, and all the mouth breathers love it, not realising they are turkeys cheering about Christmas coming.

I'm pretty sure we have the highest tax burden we've ever had.

National governments have fundamentally lost control of where revenue is reported and tax, without a fully globally agreed system that is not solvable.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'm pretty sure we have the highest tax burden we've ever had.

National governments have fundamentally lost control of where revenue is reported and tax, without a fully globally agreed system that is not solvable.

Agreed. And are Labour, the government of the 6th richest country in the world doing ANYTHING about that? No.

They're going for the most vulnerable again, just like the Tories did.

Sighing and just accepting things is what has got us here, carry on and it just gets worse, and that's exactly what they're doing.

 

[prawnking]

Agreed. And are Labour, the government of the 6th richest country in the world doing ANYTHING about that? No.

They're going for the most vulnerable again, just like the Tories did.

Sighing and just accepting things is what has got us here, carry on and it just gets worse, and that's exactly what they're doing.

So you're saying that Labour are basically making cruel ideological choices, like the Tories, when there are other options that would definitely work better.

Why would they do that? What are those other options?

 

[Tredman]

So you're saying that Labour are basically making cruel ideological choices, like the Tories, when there are other options that would definitely work better.

Why would they do that? What are those other options?

That last question never gets answered.

 

[Del Woppio]

What are those other options?

Enforce corporation tax properly, rather than offering nonsense tax breaks all the time. Yes, much of that will ultimately be passed onto the public as the end user, but there will also be a margin squeeze. Quite simply, if you don't pay the correct tax, then you don't have access to our market.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

So you're saying that Labour are basically making cruel ideological choices, like the Tories, when there are other options that would definitely work better.

Why would they do that? What are those other options?

I'm saying they're terrified of even entertaining other options, so just carry on with what has been happening for decades and hasn't been working.

Cut, cut, cut - austerity, smash social care, smash the "benefit scroungers"

They and we would be absolutely battering the Tories if they were pushing the policies Labour are.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

That last question never gets answered.

It gets regularly answered, it then gets patronised as "lefty nonsense", "champagne socialism" or "Marxism"

And gets ushered away as something that didn't work 60 years ago (when largely it did) so wouldn't work now, as though this right now is perfectly fine whilst racism and poverty are running rife and the country rots.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Why would they do that?

Explain to me why they are doing it now?

Honestly the apathy is fucking sickening, and exactly why we are where we are.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

That last question never gets answered.

Democratic Socialism

 

[Tredman]

It gets regularly answered, it then gets patronised as "lefty nonsense", "champagne socialism" or "Marxism"

And gets ushered away as something that didn't work 60 years ago (when largely it did) so wouldn't work now, as though this right now is perfectly fine whilst racism and poverty are running rife and the country rots.

Make it specific - answer the question!

 

[Tredman]

Democratic Socialism

How can that be implemented?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

How can that be implemented?

Democratically.

 

[prawnking]

Explain to me why they are doing it now?

Honestly the apathy is fucking sickening, and exactly why we are where we are.

I think you're reading a lot into a couple of simple questions, I'm not apathetic at all.

I'm just interested in alternative solutions based on how the country and its finances actually are right now in reality, rather than broad, emotive, utopian statements

 

[prawnking]

Democratic Socialism

Isn't there room for Democratic Socialists within Labour?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I think you're reading a lot into a couple of simple questions, I'm not apathetic at all.

I'm just interested in alternative solutions based on how the country and its finances actually are right now in reality, rather than broad, emotive, utopian statements

Utopian statements!? Is NOT reducing benefits to the weakest and poorest Utopian? You're pretty much saying it's all we can do.

 

[Tredman]

Debunked myth. The rich don't move if you tax them, at least not in significant numbers. Definitely not enough leave to justify not even attempting to tax them more. It's something perniciousy spread by the wealthy to convince enough people to say "Well there's no point trying to tax them". And people buy it, peddle it and so the wealthy continue to avoid paying a fair tax burden and that burden falls on the poor, the disabled and the vulnerable.

‘Wealth taxes will cause the rich to flee’: 12 wealth tax myths debunked - Tax Justice UK

Wealth taxes have huge popular support: 78% of people in the UK support higher taxes on those who own assets worth over £10 million. When it comes to convincing politicians, however, the issue of wealth taxes can become more contentious. We asked our readers to send a message to their MP...

taxjustice.uk

We need to tax businesses better as well as people, and they definitely do move away their money.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Isn't there room for Democratic Socialists within Labour?

Apparently not. However, if there was those democratic socialists would be able to elect from within their number leaders who espoused such views to take those policies to the electorate to be tested. Arguably, more of the electorate voted for democratic socialism in 2017 than whatever the current Labour Party is/was in 2024. The caveat to that is that it was a significantly different political landscape in 2017 in so much as it was a Brexit election where many viewed it as a second referendum. I don't actually think the 12.8 million who voted Labour in 2017 were ardent supporters of democratic socialism.

 

[Tredman]

Democratically.

But then what actually should be done?