Keir Starmer at it again..

[The Saturday Boy]

I don't disagree with most of that but it does seem very much like what we had in the 60/70s and that didn't go too well by the end of that period.

How well is the status quo faring? Capitalism in its neo-liberalism coat has failed on numerous occasions on a much greater scale than anything that happened in the 60s and 70s but has been rescued and we have paid the price. Worth saying that leaders in the 69s and 70s also tried to maintain the status quo, we paid for that too.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

If this is to be implemented Democratically then it has be a 'force' I can vote for in 2029. Where does that force currently lie?

Nowhere in the UK. It should be in the Labour Party.

 

[Tredman]

How well is the status quo faring? Capitalism in its neo-liberalism coat has failed on numerous occasions on a much greater scale than anything that happened in the 60s and 70s but has been rescued and we have paid the price. Worth saying that leaders in the 69s and 70s also tried to maintain the status quo, we paid for that too.

It is indisputable that living standards in the UK are better now than the 70s. Up until 2008 living standards seemed to be heading up and up.

 

[Templeton Peck]

It is indisputable that living standards in the UK are better now than the 70s. Up until 2008 living standards seemed to be heading up and up.

Poverty went up hugely under Thatcher though. Wasn't really addressed until Blair got in.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

It is indisputable that living standards in the UK are better now than the 70s. Up until 2008 living standards seemed to be heading up and up.

I am sure if you compare 1970s living standards to the 1920s the same could be said. It’s not really relevant

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I am sure if you compare 1970s living standards to the 1920s the same could be said. It’s not really relevant

Also note that it's 17 years since 2008..

 

[Tredman]

Depends on your measurement. In the 60s and 70s real wage rises for most were at around 4-6% so people were better off year on year. Since the 2000s real wage rises have been at about 1.5-1.7%, so people aren't getting more better off than they were in the 1970s. Since the 2000s real wage rises for the very rich have been significantly higher, so if you want to measure living standards by the success of the top 10%, yeah living standards are better. If you want to measure on for instance, house affordability, rent, general cost of living, I think it's extraordinarily inaccurate to say living standards are better today.

Yes, people can buy more 'stuff', but the fact that vast swathes of people are 3 missed pay slips from absolute disaster is not a ringing endorsement of standard of living.

Fair point, but I think the start of that change is probably late 2000s. That’s probably the point at which life expectancy started to stagnate too.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

Read somewhere a couple of weeks ago that things what were once considered luxuries have become cheap and readily available, while the actual necessities are becoming increasingly unaffordable.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Read somewhere a couple of weeks ago that things what were once considered luxuries have become cheap and readily available, while the actual necessities are becoming increasingly unaffordable.

My immediate thought is that’s because the margin on luxuries was always high - think reassuringly expensive - so there’s plenty of scope to cut the price to maintain sales.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

"We jUsT nEeD tO gEt tHe ToRiEs oUt"

 

[Tredman]

Yes we did.

Edit - also the patronising typing & tone is a great example of why many people think the left look down on people.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Oh contrare the patronising was off the scale in the run up to the election from people who were just saying the above and weren't (and still arent) willing to acknowledge how awful "Labour's policing making is.

What's patronising is this belief that getting the Tories out is all that matters, fuck everything else. It's also dangerous.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Yes we did.

Edit - also the patronising typing & tone is a great example of why many people think the left look down on people.

What is definitely patronising is saying that “the left” is one homogenous group that all think, act and speak in the same way.

 

[Del Woppio]

and share one bar of soap*

*He didn't say that but he definitely thinks it.

 

[Tredman]

What is definitely patronising is saying that “the left” is one homogenous group that all think, act and speak in the same way.

I did say hard left originally, but removed that as I thought it would be denigrating

 

[AndyWolves]

Oh contrare the patronising was off the scale in the run up to the election from people who were just saying the above and weren't (and still arent) willing to acknowledge how awful "Labour's policing making is.

What's patronising is this belief that getting the Tories out is all that matters, fuck everything else. It's also dangerous.

i can't imagine things would be better under the tories at the moment.

A very small personal example, but i've needed to get 2 GP appointments in the last week. I was able to get both on the same day. I don't know if i should attribute this to something labour did, but i certainly wasn't able to do that under the tories.

 

[Lupo]

I needed a GP appointment urgently last Monday, couldn't get anything so had to ring 111 who sent me Urgent Care at Telford Hospital (18 miles away)

 

[Kenny]

I needed a GP appointment urgently last Monday, couldn't get anything so had to ring 111 who sent me Urgent Care at Telford Hospital (18 miles away)

Move to MD

Wife and the MiL get appointments the same day. Sometimes it is a phone call assessment but an appointment at least.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I’d still vote for this lot over the Tories every single time.

Getting the Tories out WAS what mattered, despite how disappointing Labour have been so far.

 

[Del Woppio]

From the DWP analysis

Overall, it is estimated that in 2029/30 there will be 3.2 million families – some current recipients and some future recipients - who will financially lose as a result of this package, with an average loss of £1,720 per year compared to inflation. There are also estimated to be 3.8 million families - some current recipients and some future recipients - who will financially gain from this package, with an average gain of £420 per year compared to inflation.