Norwich (A) 31/10 Build-Up Thread #bogeyteam #mayaswellnotbother

[Kenny]

i think "dropping" the captain would have more of an effect than dropping a player who isn't captain.

Dropping him at the start of the season didn't really cause us any problems with the team spirit

 

[Siggy]

There are of course differing circumstances, but my argument was with the comment that the captain is irrelevant, your detailing of the circumstances around Henry/Johnson confirms just how important it can be. In a close knit squad that is performing well and seemingly getting on really well, i think "dropping" the captain would have more of an effect than dropping a player who isn't captain.

But he has already been dropped at the start of the season, if we brought a new player in January for example and gave him the armband I could understand a few being miffed (similar to the RJ situation) but this is a more settled squad now and the potential new captain has been with us for several seasons.

Man management is very important so I understand your point there I just don't agree that Batth being the current captain (when we all know its Coady really) is really as big a factor in his selection.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Watching him play over the last few years. He's no super ball play centre half but he;s comfortable on it and can drive forward as he did at City a couple times and can actually pick a pass. Plays a lovely clip into a centre forwards chest or feet rather than sailing it above there heads.

Whilst i felt his defensive performance against City was very good, his distribution was very poor, particularly first half.

Looking back to last season, yeah i do recall him coming out with the ball quite well, passing wasn't anything out of the ordinary though. Him being left footed definitely offers us more balance too.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Dropping him at the start of the season didn't really cause us any problems with the team spirit

He wasn't in the team at the start of the season to "drop"!

He has now established himself in the team due to good performances and is the captain, that is why it would be far more of an issue now.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I don't wish to see a whole host of changes just because of one below par performance, but our squad members did themselves no harm at the Etihad, and maybe a couple of them deserve a chance in a league game.

 

[Kenny]

He was still Captain though, so surely not picking your Captain is on a par with dropping him. I don't think dropping/resting Batth will have much, if any, impact on the team on or off the pitch tbh.

 

[Langers]

It helped of course that Danny Batth is a model professional and reacted in exactly the right way to being on the bench.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There are of course differing circumstances, but my argument was with the comment that the captain is irrelevant, your detailing of the circumstances around Henry/Johnson confirms just how important it can be. In a close knit squad that is performing well and seemingly getting on really well, i think "dropping" the captain would have more of an effect than dropping a player who isn't captain.

Ok then, didn't bother Craddock when we made Henry captain instead of him.

You can't just fall back on Henry/Johnson forever :icon_lol: There are tons of examples when the captain changes or the captain gets dropped and nothing happens.

 

[Tony Towner]

I'd drop Miranda, Batth and Douglas, not because of some knee jerk reaction to one bad performance but because I think Boly-Coady-Hause is potentially our strongest back 3 and Vinagre deserves his place. If that means 4 or 5 changes then so be it.

 

[Langers]

Ok then, didn't bother Craddock when we made Henry captain instead of him.

You can't just fall back on Henry/Johnson forever :icon_lol: There are tons of examples when the captain changes or the captain gets dropped and nothing happens.

Such as Sam Ricketts.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Ok then, didn't bother Craddock when we made Henry captain instead of him.

You can't just fall back on Henry/Johnson forever :icon_lol: There are tons of examples when the captain changes or the captain gets dropped and nothing happens.

As football fans we are ignorant to the intricacies of team spirit, team morale etc. My argument was with the idea that it wouldn't have any effect, i think dropping Batt would have some effect and needs to factored in.

Much like making 4 or 5 changes to a team that has been very successful so far this season would also have a big effect on team spirit, but a few seem ignorant to that too. This team has earned the right to a second chance tomorrow, none more so than Batth who performed monumentally last week at City.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Such as Sam Ricketts.

I'm still going to say that was a mistake...

(On footballing grounds, not because he was CAPTAIN and therefore his place was sacrosanct)

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

As football fans we are ignorant to the intricacies of team spirit, team morale etc. My argument was with the idea that it wouldn't have any effect, i think dropping Batt would have some effect and needs to factored in.

Much like making 4 or 5 changes to a team that has been very successful so far this season would also have a big effect on team spirit, but a few seem ignorant to that too. This team has earned the right to a second chance tomorrow, none more so than Batth who performed monumentally last week at City.

Hold up mucker, Batth's in my team :icon_lol:

The only natural conclusion to your argument is that we can only leave Danny Batth out at the point when he is clearly and demonstrably miles away from being in our team on merit, that can't be the case. To extend your own hypothesis - we don't know if leaving Conor Coady out would have an effect on morale and spirit being as it's quite obvious that he's very influential on and off the pitch. So do they both have to stay in forever?

All I'm arguing is that this manager won't really care too much about captaincy (if he did, he'd probably have given Neves the armband in July) and we should pick our best team, Willy Boly is 100% our best centre half and it's not even especially close.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Of course Batth and Coady aren't undroppable, but more consideration should be given to dropping them because of their on the pitch influence, i feel that this kind of influence is totally underestimated by fans as it something isn't tangible to us when we are in the stands or watching on TV, or when they are training and traveling together.

And i know you have Batth in your team, my response was more a general one than to you directly.

 

[jlo]

Coady has more influence on the pitch than Batth, but Batth is taking his opportunity well. I think Jinks is right, Boly and Hause alongside Coady would be my preference. Miranda and Batth have been on a par (although I think Miranda looks class generally speaking).

 

[slink]

If there's a player who we can't drop because of their on the field influence it would be Coady who is the real leader out there whether he is captain or not. Off the pitch i think we could drop both Batth and Coady and it would not cause one problem mainly because they are proper pros and i trust Nuno to manage them as he should.

 

[YoungWolf]

I think in England particularly we make a massive deal of who is captain when it's not necessarily that important. If you are relying on one person to lead then that is more of the issue than dropping that individual. Batth was dropped last season by Lambert and we were arguably better at the back without him. This season he had to fight his way back in somewhat (which he has done well). Your team has to have several leaders/key influences across the pitch and that is what Nuno will care about more.

My first choice eventually would be Boly-Miranda/Coady-Hause. Hause is a far better footballer than given credit for and is an absolute rock when he's on his game, and he was our best defender last season by a mile I thought.

 

[Johnny75]

Of course Batth and Coady aren't undroppable, but more consideration should be given to dropping them because of their on the pitch influence, i feel that this kind of influence is totally underestimated by fans as it something isn't tangible to us when we are in the stands or watching on TV, or when they are training and traveling together.

And i know you have Batth in your team, my response was more a general one than to you directly.

You're entitled to your opinion but you seem to have trouble respecting others. I don't underestimate team spirit but judging you by your posts I would say you are massively overestimating the effects of a fabric armband.

Danny Batth's influence wasn't needed for the first three games of the season nor has it been especially important to our performances since then. It's not as if he's a John Terry/ Tony Adams character that can dominate players with their sheer presence.

Nuno is picking his best team as his system demands based on the evidence so far. I don't think Batth will be in our best XI when Boly, Hause, Miranda, Coady and Batth are fit. Nothing to do with captaincy, just ability.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

"I don't underestimate team spirit but judging you by your posts I would say you are massively overestimating the effects of a fabric armband. "

That statement alone contradicts itself.

All i'm saying is that the fact Batth is captain should be part of the thought process as to whether he is dropped or not, and no i don't respect the opinion that think that is wrong.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

If there's a player who we can't drop because of their on the field influence it would be Coady who is the real leader out there whether he is captain or not. Off the pitch i think we could drop both Batth and Coady and it would not cause one problem mainly because they are proper pros and i trust Nuno to manage them as he should.

This time last year no one would have said that Coady has big impact on the team, it's only since it has been brought to our attention by the WolvesTV videos and being able to here him during the tour in Austria that it's more obvious now.

Again that is part of my point, as fans it is difficult to appreciate, how much or how little Batth effects things with him being captain.