Wolves 0-2 Crystal Palace: Verdict Thread

[Tony Towner]

Sa
Jonny Kilimanjaro Coady RAN
Neves Moutinho Saiss
Chiquinho Raul Neto

Pod for Neto at 60mins

Not the team I'd play, I'd be 4231/4213 but a back 3 doesn't offer us anything at the moment

 

[PuntsWolf]

I thought it was fair tactical analysis

 

[redvictor]

Are we going down or something? Jesus there’s some overreacting going on today. First half was awful, tactically all over the place but a real lack of conviction, bite and decision making all over the field. Everyone has to take the blame but Bruno is the manager so has to take the brunt of it.

Bruno got it wrong, one of Raul or Fabio have to play and i think Cundle has to be close to getting another go. Full backs were really poor but i think we knew that was going to happen anyway.

Having seen the full quote Bruno has dug out Hoever a bit but he’s definitely aiming it at other players too and it’s not as direct as it seemed when the quotes were first reported.

We’ve had games like this before under Bruno and Nuno so it wasn’t anything new. Coach gets it wrong, players not at it and concede twice, game over. We still can’t break a team down, i think they possibly do a lot of work on attacking in training but on match day they can’t replicate it as the movement/execution just isn’t there often enough.

Would like to see more of Chiquinho and possibly Campbell too instead of Hwang and if Ait-Nouri isn’t quite fit maybe even Bueno. They can’t do any worse than the 2 that occupied those positions today.

As i said at the start i think there’s been a massive overreaction today even if the last 2 games have been pretty poor. We’re definitely capable of better but Bruno has to get it out of them which i think he can do. Calls to sack him or happy if he goes etc can get in the bin, we’re 8th in the Premier League. Bad end to the season and questions can rightly be asked then but he’s earned at least the summer to progress us and hopefully Fosun can help him.

Agree with all of this. A couple of weeks ago Bruno was a magician! First half today was about the players not having the heart and fight, The manager was raging in his interviews. I'm sure he will have told the young players privately everything he said in his presser.
Bruno is a good manager, but he's still learning the PL. We certainly need to give him some support, not call for his head on a plate after a couple of defeats!

 

[Tony Towner]

I thought it was fair tactical analysis

When your starting point is slagging off Moutinho and Neves then you've lost me, when you do it because you like to push for a reaction even more so

 

[Tony Towner]

Agree with all of this. A couple of weeks ago Bruno was a magician! First half today was about the players not having the heart and fight, The manager was raging in his interviews. I'm sure he will have told the young players privately everything he said in his presser.
Bruno is a good manager, but he's still learning the PL. We certainly need to give him some support, not call for his head on a plate after a couple of defeats!

I agree with the calling for his head element, giving him a pass and chucking it at the players less so. We lost today because of him, all the rest is deflection

 

[Wilf Wolf]

They were outnumbered today but surely players of their ilk should be able to play under pressure? There's a free man on the field somewhere as a result of them being outnumbered, why can't their find him with their ability? Why can't they wrestle free of the shackles of Jeff Schlupp with all their accolades?!

The problem is that if the wing backs sit deep - which they generally do - that extra man is Coady who is behind the midfield so completely useless if we're trying to go forwards.

 

[redvictor]

I agree with the calling for his head element, giving him a pass and chucking it at the players less so. We lost today because of him, all the rest is deflection

Not giving him a free pass. He got some stuff wrong today. But on any given weekend a few PL managers fuck up. It's the nature of the beast. I'm sure magic Viera has copped some flak from CP supporters over the course of the season so far.
I want to see what Bruno does with a team full of the players he wants.

 

[PuntsWolf]

The problem is that if the wing backs sit deep - which they generally do - that extra man is Coady who is behind the midfield so completely useless if we're trying to go forwards.

That’s not a midfield 2 issue. That’s an issue of playing your WBs too deep. If you Push them higher, Crystal Palace either drop Zaha and Olise deeper to cover them opening space up for you CBs to advance into open space or if they stay matched up with the CBs then you’ve got any easy clipped ball to the WBs (we do this a lot anyway). Or the wide midfielders go to the WBs and your CMs can have the freedom of the pitch.

 

[redvictor]

That’s not a midfield 2 issue. That’s an issue of playing your WBs too deep. Crystal Palace either drop Zaha and Olise deeper to cover them opening space up for you CBs to advance into open space or if they stay matched up with the CBs then you’ve got any easy clipped ball to the WBs (we do this a lot anyway). Or the wide midfielders go to the WBs and your CMs can have the freedom of the pitch.

No WB's on the pitch worth a fuck today. Semedo and RAN are very decent wing backs.

 

[Tony Towner]

That’s not a midfield 2 issue. That’s an issue of playing your WBs too deep. Crystal Palace either drop Zaha and Olise deeper to cover them opening space up for you CBs to advance into open space or if they stay matched up with the CBs then you’ve got any easy clipped ball to the WBs (we do this a lot anyway). Or the wide midfielders go to the WBs and your CMs can have the freedom of the pitch.

Yet when we do it against a 3 we lose or struggle. Where you pin the blame tactically is irrelevant - a Wolves midfield 2 versus an opposition 3 normally ends in either defeat or failure to beat an inferior team. It's an indisputable fact

 

[AndyWolves]

The problem is that if the wing backs sit deep - which they generally do - that extra man is Coady who is behind the midfield so completely useless if we're trying to go forwards.

Agree with this, the way we play means we need a lot more offensively from the WBs and sometimes the CBs.

Kilman does it, Saiss does it a bit too but none of the back 5 have done it recently.

When Kilman & Saiss do it you can see how much the opposition get unsettled.

 

[Carsy]

Sa
Jonny Kilimanjaro Coady RAN
Neves Moutinho Saiss
Chiquinho Raul Neto

Pod for Neto at 60mins

I’d look to go 433, but don’t get the call for Saiss in midfield. Not played there for the best part of 4 years? And even when he did, didn’t set the world alight.

Subs to be made dependent on game situ, not pre determined also

 

[redvictor]

Lage | 'We need to grow up against these kinds of teams'

Bruno Lage was left disappointed with the performance of his Wolves players against Crystal Palace at Molineux as he bemoaned offering the Eagles a head...

www.wolves.co.uk

 

[Mel Evo]

I seem to have slightly unintentionally found myself the voice of unreason, and having now got home im going to row back, but only so far.

I don’t really want to see Bruno sacked now, and im not really calling for his head. At the game, unlike many it seems, I’d never boo any of our team, let alone give them more direct grief. They get my vocal support and encouragement, and they’ll get it again Thursday.

That said, my response was a direct one to ‘sack him or back him’. Well… if I was an investor I’d be fairly sceptical about backing the kind of management I’ve been seeing for a period of time, one that seems to be getting worse as time goes on. I think it’s pretty disingenuous to suggest this concern comes off the back of just a couple of games. What kind of football does Bruno aspire to? Likely something pretty grim to watch. ‘Back him’ to get the meat axe he seems to want up front? Can he bring out the best in our most valuable existing assets? It’s not there today.

I do completely take the point that a replacement is unlikely to be any better, and that the investment floated in the lines above shows no sign of coming anyway. The question only really comes in the summer anyway, so it’s not one for now. But, yeah, my ideal scenario would be we have someone different overseeing the development of the squad this summer and not Bruno based on what I’ve seen. I don’t like his micro-management style (the more video sessions and ranting on the side lines the more confused the players) or the school of football he’s coming from, and the more time he spends with the squad the worse it looks. That’s my feeling - hope I’m wrong (again).

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The problem is that if the wing backs sit deep - which they generally do - that extra man is Coady who is behind the midfield so completely useless if we're trying to go forwards.

It varies game to game where that space and the spare man is.

You take a game like today against a sort of 433 and you have a few ways it could go. If the opposition front three go man for man against your back three then they're going to make it difficult to play out short, particularly with that extra man in the midfield but they're taking a chance leaving a spare man closer to their own goal to do so.

In that situation you've either got their fullbacks pushed up to the wingbacks meaning the wide forwards have to drop in to try and be an option through the middle or if you've got a more physical guy up top you maybe play the percentage game and look for 2nd balls. If their fullbacks stay back to keep numbers in their favour against your front three then the wingbacks have free rein.

Maybe they stop being so aggressive with the press if you find a way round it, drop their wingers back from the wide centre halves and onto the wingbacks. Then your spare men aren't in such a great spot and you're relying on them to force the issue, something Kilman has done on occasion, to carry the ball into an area where they have to be engaged. Then if someone comes out to pressure them you can pass around that man to create an overload.

Possession dictates the balance in most instances, it gives you the power to manipulate your opponent and control the game. You have to work hard to get the ball and you keep it though, not many teams will just let you have it these days. To me it's lazy to blame a formation on paper for that failure, the game is won and lost on the pitch.

 

[WsWolf]

If the midfield is outnumbered then you have a spare man somewhere else, it's up to them to make themselves available and then you play through them. Never seems to happen at Wolves though, Neves only controls games when other teams let him and without that it's a shit show.

The team isn't brave enough in possession, they don't work hard enough to help one another out when they've got the ball, they quickly run out of options and surrender possession cheaply as a result.

We had 2 spare but they are standing either side of Coady and they didn't step up with the ball like they have previously.

 

[Throbber3]

I’d look to go 433, but don’t get the call for Saiss in midfield. Not played there for the best part of 4 years? And even when he did, didn’t set the world alight.

Subs to be made dependent on game situ, not pre determined also

It’s him or Donk realistically and Saiss has a left foot

Agree re subs but Neto can’t do 90 for a month.
We have enough points to stay up . Start prepping for next season and making plans for the post neves era or convince him to stay

 

[PuntsWolf]

Yet when we do it against a 3 we lose or struggle. Where you pin the blame tactically is irrelevant - a Wolves midfield 2 versus an opposition 3 normally ends in either defeat or failure to beat an inferior team. It's an indisputable fact

We haven’t been that great all year. Best performance at home was against West Ham’s midfield 3. Possibly Everton’s 2 for half a game but they were embarrassing and we still only scored from a passback and a corner.

Cant think of many games where I can think we were really good. We’ve won a lot of games on very fine margins.

Man Utd probably the best performance but they let us play. We’ll give anyone a game if they let us play.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

We had 2 spare but they are standing either side of Coady and they didn't step up with the ball like they have previously.

Just need players to step up and prove themselves in those situations. If Kilman and Saiss have the ball and the pass into Neves or Moutinho isn't on then they have to force the issue themselves. I'm sure they wouldn't make it too far into the opposition half before it caught the attention of an opposition midfield or winger and then you've got your opportunity to take someone out the game when they stray from the defensive shape.

Or they just plod along passing it safely between themselves under minimal pressure in areas that will never hurt anyone.

 

[The Bear]

Or they step up and lose the ball in our defensive third because they were closed down, and we concede chances galore.