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Keir Starmer at it again..

Templeton Peck

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Yeah he's bollocksed this right up.

Not sure why the 'agree with the Tories' strategy ever gained such traction. Blair was very aggressive in his opposition to Major and it helped win him a landslide.

The timid shite we see today failed Brown in 10 and Miliband in 15. Not sure how it helps when you let the Tories set the agenda and try to beat them at their own game.
 

Johnny75

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Mick Lynch displaying a staggering lack of understanding of the cost of living crisis.

Says the answer is through the pay packets not windfall taxes.
 

Johnny75

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How does this demonstrate a lack of understandin?
The cost of living is driven by energy companies.

Gordon Brown spoke very eloquently on it at the back end of last week.

It's a man made problem purely of a tiny section of society's making.

Increasing pay will not solve that, it feeds it.
 

Johnny75

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It’s both surely. Nationalisation of the entire fake energy market is the only long term solution.
Not sure on Nationalised energy but there has to be much tighter controls and a period of time where government prevents profits being made from UK energy.
 

The Saturday Boy

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The cost of living is driven by energy companies.

Gordon Brown spoke very eloquently on it at the back end of last week.

It's a man made problem purely of a tiny section of societies making.

Increasing pay will not solve that, it feeds it.
That’s a different opinion, not a staggering lack of understanding. It is also Gordon Brown.

The current inflationary causes are not caused by wage increases and won’t be solved by wage restraint, but holding back wages to below inflation (an effective wage cut) may well lead to conditions that make a recession more likely. Squeezing household income further will reduce consumption and the risk of a recession goes up. Keeping wages at or around the current rate of inflation should provide some protection and maintain enough demand to stave off a recession in the next year or so.

Windfall taxes are one offs and may help mitigate some of the worst impacts on inflation, but real wage cuts are baked in long term and could cause prolonged economic harm.
 

Johnny75

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That’s a different opinion, not a staggering lack of understanding. It is also Gordon Brown.

The current inflationary causes are not caused by wage increases and won’t be solved by wage restraint, but holding back wages to below inflation (an effective wage cut) may well lead to conditions that make a recession more likely. Squeezing household income further will reduce consumption and the risk of a recession goes up. Keeping wages at or around the current rate of inflation should provide some protection and maintain enough demand to stave off a recession in the next year or so.

Windfall taxes are one offs and may help mitigate some of the worst impacts on inflation, but real wage cuts are baked in long term and could cause prolonged economic harm.
That's not an economic argument I made and not one I agree with.

I'm guessing you don't have a lot of time for Gordon Brown.
 

Tredman

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Not sure on Nationalised energy but there has to be much tighter controls and a period of time where government prevents profits being made from UK energy.
The energy market is total smoke and mirrors - it’s utter bullshit, totally designed to make money for a select few. I wouldn’t post them on here but some of the stories I’ve heard would not be out of place in Putin’s Russia.

Essentially you’ve got one pipe or cable, you’ve got sources feeding into the same network delivering the same thing to the same house. It’s a monopoly - there’s no way to make a market out of it which doesn’t involve the end user being fleeced.
 

Johnny75

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The energy market is total smoke and mirrors - it’s utter bullshit, totally designed to make money for a select few. I wouldn’t post them on here but some of the stories I’ve heard would not be out of place in Putin’s Russia.

Essentially you’ve got one pipe or cable, you’ve got sources feeding into the same network delivering the same thing to the same house. It’s a monopoly - there’s no way to make a market out of it which doesn’t involve the end user being fleeced.
I agree with you which is why I'd turn them into social enterprises/ not for profit rather than nationalised.
 

The Saturday Boy

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That's not an economic argument I made and not one I agree with.

I'm guessing you don't have a lot of time for Gordon Brown.
But you haven’t yet stated how Lynch has a staggering lack of understanding…so I am not clear what your opinion is or what you disagree with. Lynch was making an economic case for wages increases.

As for Brown, his record speaks for itself.
 

Johnny75

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But you haven’t yet stated how Lynch has a staggering lack of understanding…so I am not clear what your opinion is or what you disagree with. Lynch was making an economic case for wages increases.

As for Brown, his record speaks for itself.
I did, he stated the col crisis could be solved by wage increases.

It doesn't. It feeds it
 

The Saturday Boy

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I did, he stated the col crisis could be solved by wage increases.

It doesn't. It feeds it
And I said that is a matter of opinion, not a lack of understanding. There is a legitimate economic argument for wage increases just as there is one against. A supression of consumer demand caused by wage restraint that leads to a recession could worsen or at best lengthen the cost of living crisis.
 

Johnny75

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And I said that is a matter of opinion, not a lack of understanding. There is a legitimate economic argument for wage increases just as there is one against. A supression of consumer demand caused by wage restraint that leads to a recession could worsen or at best lengthen the cost of living crisis.
It's an argument for sure.

Not one that addresses the root cause of current inflation. It is not an opinion that energy/ fuel has caused the current situation, that is a fact.
 

The Saturday Boy

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It's an argument for sure.

Not one that addresses the root cause of current inflation. It is not an opinion that energy/ fuel has caused the current situation, that is a fact.
I don’t think you, me, Gordon Brown or Mick Lynch are saying energy/fuel are not the root cause. The route out is based on economic arguments which are, at times, at odds with each other. Pay rises rather than windfall taxes (although I would argue both) are legitimate whereas you dismissed Lynch as having a complete lack of understanding…but I still don’t understand why you think that other than you don’t agree.
 

Johnny75

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I don’t think you, me, Gordon Brown or Mick Lynch are saying energy/fuel are not the root cause. The route out is based on economic arguments which are, at times, at odds with each other. Pay rises rather than windfall taxes (although I would argue both) are legitimate whereas you dismissed Lynch as having a complete lack of understanding…but I still don’t understand why you think that other than you don’t agree.
By not addressing fuel/ energy shows to me a lack of understanding.

By not addressing the fuel/ energy crisis and just mentioning wages it is difficult to assume he thinks it is a concern.

Windfall taxes are one way out but I did outline another. Neither of them involve wage rises. That is where we have a difference of opinion.
 

The Saturday Boy

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By not addressing fuel/ energy shows to me a lack of understanding.

By not addressing the fuel/ energy crisis and just mentioning wages it is difficult to assume he thinks it is a concern.

Windfall taxes are one way out but I did outline another. Neither of them involve wage rises. That is where we have a difference of opinion.

He shows a complete lack of understanding because of something he didn't say rather than something he did say?
OK.
 
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