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Coronavirus

Sorry - simply don't agree with most of that.

Not sure if you've actually read the article you linked to?

"Lockdown made it possible for Arthur’s parents to legitimately keep him off school and torture him at will"
Yes, I have read it. Indeed I have also spoken to the author - he's actually not far away from me as I type this, as I work with him!
Arthur was always at risk regardless. Lockdown gave certain agencies excuses to minimise their engagement and not fulfil their responsibilities. But was not the cause.
You've picked one single sentence out of an essay and tried to argue that's the summary. Hint, it wasn't.
 
Yes I know what you mean - but what I'm saying is that until you are confident social services etc is properly funded and the causes of child abuse have been eradicated, you have to accept that lockdowns will lead to more child abuse.
The final 12 words of the above do not necessarily follow from what precedes.
I am unaware of a time ever when social services have been adequately resourced tbh.

I'm unclear on the argument being made here. Are you suggesting lockdowns shouldn't have been implemented owing to these risks?
 
The final 12 words of the above do not necessarily follow from what precedes.
I am unaware of a time ever when social services have been adequately resourced tbh.

I'm unclear on the argument being made here. Are you suggesting lockdowns shouldn't have been implemented owing to these risks?
Not really, I'm saying with the fuller picture we have now, they can't be justified.
 
Encouraging news although this has yet to be peer reviewed and is based on early data.

Data released by the National Institute for Communicable Diseases (NICD) for Tshwane, the metropolitan area which includes Pretoria where the first suspected Omicron outbreak occurred, showed 1,633 admissions in public and private hospitals for Covid between 14 November and 8 December.

Of those, 31% were severe cases – defined as patients needing oxygen or mechanical ventilation – compared with 66% early in the second wave of the coronavirus pandemic and 67% in the early weeks of the first.
 
Yes, I have read it. Indeed I have also spoken to the author - he's actually not far away from me as I type this, as I work with him!
Arthur was always at risk regardless. Lockdown gave certain agencies excuses to minimise their engagement and not fulfil their responsibilities. But was not the cause.
You've picked one single sentence out of an essay and tried to argue that's the summary. Hint, it wasn't.
Maybe it's just me being cynical, but I'd always assume this to be the case, surely you've got to factor that in when making decisions?

Arthur was always at risk regardless.

Isn't that a bit like saying - clinically extremely vulnerable people were always at risk regardless, covid or not
 
went to the walk in centre. Opens 0830. Got there 0832. Queue around the block. Not happening today.
 
I drove over to Telford at lunchtime for my 12.45 appointment and was turned away as they are still working on 6 months not 3 as they haven't had the go ahead, played my face a bit but more because I was pissed off. I'm 9 days short of 6 months
 
Was just at a customer‘s house and got chit-chatting about stuff they way you do. She’d just had her Pfizer booster so we got into all of ’that’. Seemed to know a bit about what she was talking about so asked her if she minds if I ask ”What do you do?”

”Professor of Global Public Health at UCL”. Sarah Hawkes.

Oh, erm, ok. Have to say, she was mightily impressed I reversed my van into her driveway without knocking the post over.
 
Yes I know what you mean - but what I'm saying is that until you are confident social services etc is properly funded and the causes of child abuse have been eradicated, you have to accept that lockdowns will lead to more child abuse.

Your climate change example, let's say it gets scorching hot everyday in 25 years time due to climate change. The cause of climate change is years of burning fossil fuels. Does that mean going out and sunbathing for 12 hours without sun cream is wise? If you told someone I'm burned because I didn't put suncream on, would it be reasonable for them to say, "ahhhhh, it's not the failure to put suncream on that's caused the sunburn, it's the years of burning fossil fuels. Here's an article on climate change to prove it. Carry on going on outside without suncream as that's not the cause of your problem" If anyone followed that advice, they'd be sunburned to fuck.

You've got make decisions based on the reality of the circumstances at the time, not how you want things to be. And we all know the circumstances for millions of children right now. If at some mythical point we eliminate child abuse and establish a perfect social services system - I could accept you saying lockdowns don't cause suffering for children, but the fact is they do. All I'm saying is it's not a simple choice of lockdowns = no harm/good, no lockdowns = deaths/bad. There's losers in each scenario and the lockdown path disproportionately puts the burden on vulnerable children.
If you're asking me to prioritise one life over many thousands I'm afraid I just can't do that.
 
If you're asking me to prioritise one life over many thousands I'm afraid I just can't do that.
Fair enough, it's not just one life but I know what you mean. Can you at least acknowledge there are downsides to both approaches though?
 
Fair enough, it's not just one life but I know what you mean. Can you at least acknowledge there are downsides to both approaches though?
Of course there are, it's a shitty stick for everyone, I just feel the downsides to an overwhelmed NHS would result in more negative impacts.

Burst appendixes, broken limbs, heart attacks, strokes, meningitis etc all become much more likely to be fatal in addition to the extra COVID fatalities.
 
Sounds like 22 Conservative MPs (so far) have declared their intention to vote against plan B.
 
Surely the purpose of the NHS is to allow people to live their lives to the fullest and longest, without having to worry unduly about getting ill or paying massive bills for healthcare. It is there to treat people when they are sick and, from time to time, to check on them to make sure they are not about to get sick in order to prevent the worst from happening. The rest of the time, people should be able to forget about it.

Unfortunately, the NHS seems to lurch from one crisis to another, held together at the seams by the hard work of doctors, nurses and all the rest. An honest discussion about the NHS’s failings and the lessons that could learn from other countries about how best to run a healthcare system is long overdue.

The cult-like status of the NHS not only prevents that discussion from happening, but it has also made it the responsibility of every citizen to protect the NHS, rather than the other way around. The past two years have shown that even our most basic freedoms can be sacrificed to keep the show on the road.

Even before the pandemic, public-health bodies have long called on the government to enforce drastic changes to our lifestyles in order to reduce the strain on the health service. Taxes, bans and restrictions on cigarettes, alcohol, sugary drinks and more are routinely justified as a means of saving the NHS. As broadcaster Timandra Harkness noted last year, ‘the principle that society must change around the limitations of the NHS, and not vice versa, is now entrenched in public discourse’.
 
That's an interesting view from somebody who isn't from the UK and never lived here (?).

How have you arrived at that?
 
They've had two years to build up capacity in the NHS and yet it still appears to be in exactly the same position, if not worse, than it was at the start of all this. I really don't see how imposing measures that massively reduce tax receipts and therefore money available to spend on the NHS is "protecting" it in the long term either.

The conversation should be about how we can get the NHS to a position where it can cope with the inevitable spike in cases that will happen every year now. As has been shown vaccines haven't really been the panacea everyone was hoping they would be as the experts are still advocating for the same restrictions as when they didn't exist. The danger is the Tories will use the continuing NHS crises to justify privatisation.
 
They've had two years to build up capacity in the NHS and yet it still appears to be in exactly the same position, if not worse, than it was at the start of all this. I really don't see how imposing measures that massively reduce tax receipts and therefore money available to spend on the NHS is "protecting" it in the long term either.

The conversation should be about how we can get the NHS to a position where it can cope with the inevitable spike in cases that will happen every year now. As has been shown vaccines haven't really been the panacea everyone was hoping they would be as the experts are still advocating for the same restrictions as when they didn't exist. The danger is the Tories will use the continuing NHS crises to justify privatisation.
No, you're wrong... There is LOADS of capacity via the Tory built* "Nightingale Hospitals" that never actually opened.
I guess banning nurses from coming to the UK to work from Europe because "coming over here, taking our jobs" has backfired slightly!



*they built jack shit
 
That's an interesting view from somebody who isn't from the UK and never lived here (?).

How have you arrived at that?
I’ve spent close to 20 years of my life living in England . . . albeit not in the last 25 years.
 
Managed to get a walk-in booster just now having heard there was a bit of capacity at my local centre this morning. Excellent. Thought I'd fill my boots while I was there and got the flu jab too, though this was a less happy experience as I was age checked twice as they tried to persuade me I was 65 or over. As a 45 year old I still hope for the age check in supermarket when buying booze! I've crossed the Rubicon.
 
I’ve spent close to 20 years of my life living in England . . . albeit not in the last 25 years.
So how have you arrived at your point of view having not lived here for 25 years?

I'm interested as a view on our NHS from outside is something I'm not used to.
 
No, you're wrong... There is LOADS of capacity via the Tory built* "Nightingale Hospitals" that never actually opened.
I guess banning nurses from coming to the UK to work from Europe because "coming over here, taking our jobs" has backfired slightly!



*they built jack shit

I agree with what you were saying, but I believe they did actually build them. The issue is that they were underequiped and the consultants were unwilling to move from the QE for example to basically a building with beds in. Obviously you might be able to staff it by changing your immigration laws…
 
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