Derby 4 -2 Wolves The Verdict

[Deleted Cyber]

Okey dokey off ya go

 

[Premier Quality]

Derby are a good side - Johnson cost almost twice as much as our entire starting eleven, and that's before all the cash they've spent on Thorne, butterfield, russell, ince etc.

Only one real complaint from me - why nobody on the posts? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Beaten comfortably in the end but could have been better if we had defended better. Iorfa, Price, MacDonald Afobe ( apart from the goal) Batth all had bang average games or worse. Still onwards and upwards. It is now what we do this week against Brentford and Boro

 

[Aikiwolf]

Dreadful performance from the defensive part of the team. Never gave us the opportunity to win the game.

Not sold on this perceived lack of effort from Afobe, he doesnt chase every ball - but is there much point in running after lost causes?

As for pressing the opposition; I think KJ has asked the forwards to sit and block channels instead of pressing the oppositions defence - not a principle I agree with.

 

[slink]

Derby have a good attacking team so i have no idea why we didn't come with a plan of closing them down at some point. From the very first minute we didn't get close enough to them and we let them play apart from 10 minutes around the time we equalised and were the better side. We just didn't get close enough to them or back into a good enough shape to stop them playing through us and we paid for it. Iorfa and Batth were particularly poor defensively but we need to move on and look at getting 3 points against Brentford.

 

[Norman Deeley]

A few random points:
after Martinez had booted it long for 3,578th time and it had come straight back, could he not work out - or could KJ not tell him - not to do it again?
Batth is never going to get any quicker than he is now
James Henry isn't as good as James Henry thinks he is
And McDonald is what rugby forwards kindly refer to as a "girl." Loves to do the pretty things, but FFS sake, Kevin, get stuck in

 

[Deleted Cyber]

A few random points:
after Martinez had booted it long for 3,578th time and it had come straight back, could he not work out - or could KJ not tell him - not to do it again? Language barrier?
Batth is never going to get any quicker than he is now And he was bloody slow when he was younger. Turning circle of the queen Mary
James Henry isn't as good as James Henry thinks he is . Sometimes I think he couldnt cross a road
And McDonald is what rugby forwards kindly refer to as a "girl." Loves to do the pretty things, but FFS sake, Kevin, get stuck in Big nancy Jessie. Pulled out of three tackles today that were at worst 50/50 at best 60/40 to him.

My responses in bold.

But I suppose with the millions Derby have thrown at the team they should be doing to many teams what they did to us today. All the more reason for us to bemoan our squad strengthening or lack of it

 

[Jolemai]

Good old hindsight time. Some people in the build up thread were advocating changing the team and formation and these views were countered by the "don't change a winning team/stop changing things around ffs" argument/concern that has been around recently.

So, would changing things have altered the result or are we that far behind Derby in personnel right now?

 

[slink]

Kenny says we invited Derby on too much. No fucking shit so why didn't you change something and get us pressing them in better areas like they were to us forcing us to play long to Afobe and Le Fondre.

 

[Freddeno]

Derby have a good attacking team so i have no idea why we didn't come with a plan of closing them down at some point. From the very first minute we didn't get close enough to them and we let them play apart from 10 minutes around the time we equalised and were the better side. We just didn't get close enough to them or back into a good enough shape to stop them playing through us and we paid for it. Iorfa and Batth were particularly poor defensively but we need to move on and look at getting 3 points against Brentford.

Agree with this..

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Good old hindsight time. Some people in the build up thread were advocating changing the team and formation and these views were countered by the "don't change a winning team/stop changing things around ffs" argument/concern that has been around recently.

So, would changing things have altered the result or are we that far behind Derby in personnel right now?[/QUOTE]

yes we are but what we do have didnt play well today and didnt defend the basics anywhere near well enough. i.e Posts at Corners, Goalkeeper gets a cross he calls for and the midlfield / defence clear on one of the three opportunities they had for the Derby 4th goal. Thats enough from me. Its not the Cyber thread. Lets hope the form team turns up again against Brentford and Boro.

 

[jd1981]

Three of the four goals conceded were very avoidable, clearly second best throughout. As a defensive unit we were a joke today.
Very wasteful in midfield also, most annoying factor about the second goal was it came at a time when we looked the better side.

 

[arklowolf]

A few random points:
after Martinez had booted it long for 3,578th time and it had come straight back, could he not work out - or could KJ not tell him - not to do it again?
Batth is never going to get any quicker than he is now
James Henry isn't as good as James Henry thinks he is
And McDonald is what rugby forwards kindly refer to as a "girl." Loves to do the pretty things, but FFS sake, Kevin, get stuck in

Have always thought that about McDonald. Bone idle.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I was very disappointed with Price today, he didn't seem to do anything - Coady at least tried to drive the team on, wouldn't be overly surprised to see Price dropped for the next game.

Hause was equally anonymous, which is sometimes going to happen with a young player finding his feet - more disappointing was Batth who was really poor.

Wallace, barely had the ball and when he did he looked wasteful. Should have come off at half time imo.

 

[Hamlet]

it's frustrating how much we screwed ourselves over in that game - second goal avoidable when we were on top and as for the third one...still pissed about that, we could have ended the half on a high of sorts, have something to take to the second half but instead we fannied around for 15 minutes by which time Derby had already put the game to bed!

Not that I expected to beat Derby but nobody can say that was our best performance even if it wasn't our worst...overall. Defence was just crap.

 

[Johnny75]

Kenny says we invited Derby on too much. No $#@!ing $#@! so why didn't you change something and get us pressing them in better areas like they were to us forcing us to play long to Afobe and Le Fondre.

Indeed, when you have weaker personnel the last thing you want to do is invite a superior attacking team to do just that. Barmy tactics.

Derby didn't allow us to get settled on the ball and it was only when we upped the tempo, superbly through McD and Price, that we played really well and were by far the better team.

Few noticeable things:
Whatever 'footballing reasons' are they clearly do not involve playing actual football
Adam LeFondre is better than Afobe at the moment in every facet of the game
Whoever works on tactics needs a rethink as they were piss poor today
When we up the tempo McD, Price, ALF and Afobe are nigh on unplayable
We really aren't that far away from the top teams

Finally, people decrying not having a player on the post at set pieces belong in the '80's with Messrs Taylor and Hughes.

 

[Premier Quality]

Care to explain the post bit Jonny? And why the majority of teams in both Premiership and championship have players on the posts?

 

[PuntsWolf]

I think back post is essential. And the near post man in a zonal system who then drops back in if it goes deep

 

[Johnny75]

Care to explain the post bit Jonny? And why the majority of teams in both Premiership and championship have players on the posts?

The majority? I don't think many have a player on one post let alone 2.

There are several modern schools of thought on defending corners:

In general if you put players on posts you lose the ability for those players to mark a man, that leaves 2 players a free run at your goal or 2 players free to pick up the 2nd ball at the edge of the area or two players less to put further up the field and spring the counter.

Advantages of players not on the post allows you the opposite of the above and also if you have one player free you can go with a combination of zonal and man marking. This gives you better defensive positioning and allows a defender to martial players rather than the 'keeper.

You can also cut out short corners easier with no player on the posts as you have more personnel.

In the modern game where movement is valued greater than sheer power of earlier decades simple crosses into the box are not as effective at higher levels of football and as such players moving onto the ball are valued higher than static players. The Afobe corner and block from Hause on that corner is a perfect example of this, note how useful Derby's man on the post was in that situation.

I was on a coaching course quite a few years ago with Kenny Cunnigham and he was a fan of taking players off the posts then and putting a player on the edge of the 6yd Box whereby if the ball went over his head he could retreat to the post, spring the counter if necessary as he was going in that direction to start with and also could pick up the low fizzed cross.

You then have the argument of which player to put on a post and which post.

Of course men on the posts can only do so much when your main header of the ball loses their main header of the ball, then you're just fucked.

 

[Siglap Wolf]

HK

Watched the game being projected onto the side of an office complex wall from a bar in Wanchai (Hong Kong) with a gang of Derby fans - really not an enjoyable experience. Couple of random observations - there should always be a player on each post from corners and Martinez should have flattened the striker for the second goal which was Sunday league defending at best. Can't be many keepers who would have conceded such a ridiculously soft goal - absolutely no heart or commitment.