Derby 4 -2 Wolves The Verdict

[Premier Quality]

I think back post is essential. And the near post man in a zonal system who then drops back in if it goes deep

That's my impression of the majority also.

 

[Johnny75]

That's my impression of the majority also.

So we would have still conceded as having a player at the back post would have made no difference?

 

[Freddeno]

Having played football all my life a player at each post is basic..strange many teams dont value that anymore

 

[Johnny75]

Having played football all my life a player at each post is basic..strange many teams dont value that anymore

That's a woeful argument Fred. There's a lot of difference from kicking around at cloggers level to the professional game.

 

[Premier Quality]

So we would have still conceded as having a player at the back post would have made no difference?

Well no, due to the guy dropping back onto the near post when the ball went over his head.

Regardless of that, I appreciate your explanation, it was good, even if I disagree with it.

 

[Freddeno]

It is about tactics..do you think it's better or worse to leave the posts unmarked? I have been playing at a decent level in sweden and also went to football gymnasium with other talented players

 

[slink]

I'm with Johnny here, the front post should be covered by the man on the edge of the six yard box, if the ball beats him he filters on to the post. No man on the back post for me as the marking should be good enough and it gives you the extra man to go and win the ball.

 

[Johnny75]

Well no, due to the guy dropping back onto the near post when the ball went over his head.

Regardless of that, I appreciate your explanation, it was good, even if I disagree with it.

He'd have had to be pretty quick to react to that!

It is about tactics..do you think it's better or worse to leave the posts unmarked? I have been playing at a decent level in sweden and also went to football gymnasium with other talented players

I have explained above Fred and Slink has summed it up well.

 

[Freddeno]

Well i dont agree with that anyway

 

[Johnny75]

That's fair enough Fred we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Having played football all my life a player at each post is basic..strange many teams dont value that anymore

zonal and no posts is fine if you are defending the first ball well. We didnt today. The posts are basic IMO when you're a young defence. I get class prem teams taking the risk but a young inexperienced defence that is just getting used to each other with a new keeper should stick to basics. Get that right first. Every game starts at 0-0 and lets make sure it gets no worse. And thats posts and marking your man( Danny Batth please note). We are not Barcelona hell we afre not even the top 3 teams in the midlands so stick to the basics and do it right. Penalty saved and scoring from the resulting corner is footballing suicide. I would be incandescent had the teams I coached and managed conceded a goal like the 3rd today.

 

[YoungWolf]

Frustrating, especially the second half.

Had we scored another in the period we were dominating after our equaliser I'd have felt confident. The third goal was the real killer, get to half time and Derby (Martin in particular) have fifteen minutes to think about how the game should be over there and then.

There were positives. McDonald looked confident again to me, I thought Henry did well though he should have linked up with Iorfa more often. Both of our strikers scored.

Batth was worryingly given the run around but I would argue Martin is the best forward in the division. Derby are screwed if they lose him.

 

[Walnut]

Gave them so much space on the edge of the box, players standing off, no one pressing them
I thought Henry, Who I like was crap today, his crosses were abysmal. Should have been changes at half time.
Too many bad mistakes from the defenders.
I wish we had Martin, premiership player in my opinion.

 

[leedswolf]

zonal and no posts is fine if you are defending the first ball well. We didnt today. The posts are basic IMO when you're a young defence. I get class prem teams taking the risk but a young inexperienced defence that is just getting used to each other with a new keeper should stick to basics. Get that right first. Every game starts at 0-0 and lets make sure it gets no worse. And thats posts and marking your man( Danny Batth please note). We are not Barcelona hell we afre not even the top 3 teams in the midlands so stick to the basics and do it right. Penalty saved and scoring from the resulting corner is footballing suicide. I would be incandescent had the teams I coached and managed conceded a goal like the 3rd today.

Barca are quite shit at defending corners. Presumably the zonal and/or man for man marking system(s) would form part of the Academy tactics and as such shouldn't come as a shock. We seemed to struggle with the physicality of the Derby team more than how we set ourselves up at the corners.

 

[BillyDee]

I've always fucking hated Coldplay...

 

[FrankMunro-371]

We were second best today. Sometimes this happens, and we have to accept it. Derby have spent heavily in their squad, and after a poor start they are now showing why they will be in the mix for promotion come the end of the season.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Let me state from the outset - I don't think the manager is the fundamental reason we lost that game. It's down to Derby spending £20m over the summer and man for man, being better than us (as far as the midfield/forwards go, and how they operate as a unit) - we aren't going to face many better midfielders than Bradley Johnson this season, he cost £6m, we aren't in that market - and individual errors at the back; three of those goals are very poor and easily preventable (I'll give them a pass on the first one even if it was a bit easy right off a throw in - but neat football and a fantastic strike). That's not to exonerate Ken, of course. Setting the team up with no pace out wide was a poor move, and it seems perverse that we have multiple players capable of playing on the left of midfield but we've seen Edwards and Wallace out there by choice this season. Those two are not wide players, please don't put them there. But that said - there is no way that picking say, Ojo instead of Wallace would have been likely to produce a different end result today.

Wallace looked very lightweight and though he's reasonably tidy in possession he'll get hustled out of games too easily in this league as it stands. Batth had a very rough game but again Martin is one of the best operators in this division - arguably the difference between the sides today. I'm a big fan of Iorfa and Martinez but they both have to carry a large share of the blame for this defeat, we were on top when they had their double mindmelt. Probably the least effective game I've seen Price have, he didn't get on the ball like he normally does and he wasn't stopping Hendrick/Johnson when Martin was linking the play. McDonald never really got a foothold in the game.

Not so sure why Henry has got pelters as I thought he had a very decent first half and had the beating of Forsyth throughout. Delivery was variable but that was the least of our issues so odd for him to be singled out. The strikers took their goals well, despite the mistake for the second goal Iorfa handled Russell pretty well, similarly Martinez made some smart stops.

Disappointing to lose a game after a good run of course, but sometimes you just have to walk away and say you're up against a superior team - not that you should accept defeat before a ball's kicked, but you have to keep in mind where the clubs are at the moment off the pitch. Derby's net spend in the summer was around 20 times ours. No reason why we can't pick ourselves back up and win on Wednesday, the team hasn't become terrible overnight and Jackett hasn't become a bad manager. Sadly some are just itching to have a crack at him every time we lose. He won't be going anywhere in the short term, his position has strengthened since the club went up for sale (unless he looks like sending us back down to L1, which is very unlikely).

Just a note on the ref - should have blown for HT after the penalty save. Time was up, Derby shouldn't have been allowed to take the corner.

 

[tricky wolf]

we have no width or a plan B i realy do give up

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Let me state from the outset - I don't think the manager is the fundamental reason we lost that game. It's down to Derby spending £20m over the summer and man for man, being better than us (as far as the midfield/forwards go, and how they operate as a unit) - we aren't going to face many better midfielders than Bradley Johnson this season, he cost £6m, we aren't in that market - and individual errors at the back; three of those goals are very poor and easily preventable (I'll give them a pass on the first one even if it was a bit easy right off a throw in - but neat football and a fantastic strike). That's not to exonerate Ken, of course. Setting the team up with no pace out wide was a poor move, and it seems perverse that we have multiple players capable of playing on the left of midfield but we've seen Edwards and Wallace out there by choice this season. Those two are not wide players, please don't put them there. But that said - there is no way that picking say, Ojo instead of Wallace would have been likely to produce a different end result today.

Wallace looked very lightweight and though he's reasonably tidy in possession he'll get hustled out of games too easily in this league as it stands. Batth had a very rough game but again Martin is one of the best operators in this division - arguably the difference between the sides today. I'm a big fan of Iorfa and Martinez but they both have to carry a large share of the blame for this defeat, we were on top when they had their double mindmelt. Probably the least effective game I've seen Price have, he didn't get on the ball like he normally does and he wasn't stopping Hendrick/Johnson when Martin was linking the play. McDonald never really got a foothold in the game.

Not so sure why Henry has got pelters as I thought he had a very decent first half and had the beating of Forsyth throughout. Delivery was variable but that was the least of our issues so odd for him to be singled out. The strikers took their goals well, despite the mistake for the second goal Iorfa handled Russell pretty well, similarly Martinez made some smart stops.

Disappointing to lose a game after a good run of course, but sometimes you just have to walk away and say you're up against a superior team - not that you should accept defeat before a ball's kicked, but you have to keep in mind where the clubs are at the moment off the pitch. Derby's net spend in the summer was around 20 times ours. No reason why we can't pick ourselves back up and win on Wednesday, the team hasn't become terrible overnight and Jackett hasn't become a bad manager. Sadly some are just itching to have a crack at him every time we lose. He won't be going anywhere in the short term, his position has strengthened since the club went up for sale (unless he looks like sending us back down to L1, which is very unlikely).

Just a note on the ref - should have blown for HT after the penalty save. Time was up, Derby shouldn't have been allowed to take the corner.

I agree and with the logic you have here Boro will be a tough one for us next week. Brentford at home is a game we should win and if we win those type of games it will keep us in that top half. Whether that will ultimately be enough for players like Benik to want to stay remains to be seen

 

[North West Wanderer]

Watched the game being projected onto the side of an office complex wall from a bar in Wanchai (Hong Kong) with a gang of Derby fans - really not an enjoyable experience. Couple of random observations - there should always be a player on each post from corners and Martinez should have flattened the striker for the second goal which was Sunday league defending at best. Can't be many keepers who would have conceded such a ridiculously soft goal - absolutely no heart or commitment.

Devils advocate?