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Early Days Information

Penk Wolf

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Having asked the question 'What was the first game Wolves played as 'Wolverhampton Wanderers?', Frank has spent many hours researching the answer by talking to people at Wolves, the library, reading books, etc. and although he hasn't categorically found the answer he has found information that contradicts a lot of stuff about the early years.

Here's the information he has found:

Post 1

I think the first official game as Wolves was against Long Eaton Rangers in 1883. Sorry but I have no idea what time kick off was. Though as the club was formed in 1879 there would doubtless have been a few friendly fixtures.

Post 2

It will be interesting to know the answer. As St Lukes, their first game was against Stafford Road on 13 January 1877, with a 3.30 kick off. Stafford Road won 8 - 0.

In 1881, Wolves played Stourbridge Standard, but I presume that must have been a friendly fixture.

Post 3

I have been reading through my Wolves books, and in August 1879, the newly formed Wolverhampton Wanderers played at John Harper's Field before moving to Dudley Road in 1881. The manager was George Worrell, who was secretary/ manager from 1877 until 1885, but again the records only show competitive games, of which Wolves played just 4 under Worrell.

One reference I have found, is that Wolves played a game against Walsall Albion, I do not know the year, but there must be a chance that it was before 1881, as it is mentioned prior to the game against Stourbridge Standard.

Post 4

It is strange that there is no reference to the first game played as Wolverhampton Wanderers. I think historians consider the first game as St Lukes to be the first game, and the first competitive fixture being the FA Cup game against Long Eaton Rangers in 1883.

However having delved deeper into this, there was a team called Wednesbury Old Athletic, who along with Stafford Road were one of the pioneers of football in the area, and both these teams competed in the Birmingham Senior Cup, as did Tipton. I would have thought that Wolves would have played these teams. There was also the Wrekin Cup, which I think the newly formed Wolves entered, or at least tried to enter, but I am not sure about that.

Post 5

I am not giving up on this, and a friend has sent me the following message :

My copy of Percy Young's book : "Centenary Wolves" published in 1976 has info on pages 10 to 14 about the naming of Wolverhampton Wanderers out of a mixture of St. Lukes, Blakenhall and Goldthorn Hill and Graiseley. The first game that you mention was the 7-1 home win over Stourbridge Standard on October 1st 1881. Page 12 and also 13 show more info about this game, the team was: Caddick; Baynton,(capt),Blackham,Mason,Hardiman, Hill, Cadman,Cliff,Shelton,Crichton and Whitlock, Crowd was "nearly 200 people". Cliff got a hattrick, Hill 2 and Crichton and Cadman one goal each.

The exact day of the naming of "Wolverhampton Wanderers" is still a matter of debate and uncertainty but I would suggest that you contact the club and ask to speak with the Wolves historian.

The interesting thing is the apparent uncertainty about when the club became Wolverhampton Wanderers.

Post 6

According to one historian, Wolves were twice beaten in the Birmingham Cup final by Wednesbury Old Athletic. However the official records show that Wednesbury Old Athletic actually beat Stafford Road twice in the final, in 1877 and 1879. My search for details of the Wrekin cup has revealed that Wolves won it in 1884, and they almost certainly entered it before then. The problem is finding any information regarding games played by the newly formed Wolverhampton Wanderers between their formation in 1879 until they first entered the FA Cup in 1883. I believe that between 1879 and 1881 Wolves played up to 40 games, but I can find no record of any of them until their games against Walsall Albion (possibly late 1880) and Stourbridge Standard(1881)

Post 7

Bingo. Well sort of

Wednesbury Old Athletic beat West Bromwich Strollers, (later to be West Bromwich Albion), Aston Villa and Wolverhampton Wanderers in the same year in the late 1870's or early 1880's. Wednesbury Old Athletic were the top team in the midlands at the time. Now the interesting thing is that West Bromwich Strollers changed their name in 1880, and St Lukes changed their name in 1879, so there is a possibility that those three victories for Wednesbury Old Athletic took place in 1879, or early 1880.

Post 8

Sorry to bore you all, but I have further information, some of which casts doubts about the generally accepted date when St Lukes became Wolverhampton Wanderers. And I am indebted to the assistance offered by Wolves FC, Wolverhampton Archives, The Wolves Museum and Birmingham County Football Association.

Goldthorn Football Club were formed on 10th November 1876, but changed their name to St Lukes in January 1877 because all the players who signed up were in the St Lukes church choir. There is no record of Goldthorn playing any games, so it is fair to assume that the game against Stafford Road on 13 January was the first game. According to Jack Brodie (co-founder) they kept this name until 1881, not 1879 as the history books suggest, though they did amalgamate with the Wanderers cricket team in March 1879, and one of the conditions was that the club name should be "The Wanderers Cricket and Football team." St Lukes were very reluctant to change their name and did not do so until they considered they were getting a good deal out of the amalgamation. They did change their name to "Wanderers Football team" in 1881, which suggests that the move to the Fighting Cocks ground was what persuaded them that they were getting a good deal. This new information would suggest that the so called lost years between 1879 and 1881 were not lost at all because the club was still called St Lukes, and finding any record for games they played is proving extremely difficult.

Now the waters get even murkier. Again according to Jack Brodie, the Wanderers Football team did not use the prefix "Wolverhampton" for some time, but unfortunately he does not say exactly when. But it could well be that anyone researching the club would naturally assume that the name was Wolverhampton Wanderers. These accounts of the early days by Jack Brodie were made prior to the 1908 FA Cup Final, and it is almost certain that a full record of the club in its infancy was made, but as of yet, these records have not been found. They either got lost or destroyed.

So back to the original question of Wolves first game as Wolverhampton Wanderers. Well going back to post 13 in this thread, those games would almost certainly have taken place, as the club played up to 40 games between 1879 and 1881 against local opposition, and it is very possible that the game against Walsall Albion in early 1881 was the last played as St Lukes. So without substantiated statements, it is difficult to be 100% certain who were the first opponents as (Wolverhampton) Wanderers, but given what little details are available, I think that there is a distinct possibility that Stourbridge Standard were that team.

So have I reached the end of my search. Well yes I probably have, unless further information comes to hand regarding the clubs two founders, Jack Brodie and Jack Baynton. It has been suggested that Jack Brodie wrote a book about the formation of the club, but I can find no trace of it anywhere.
 
Frank has spent many hours recalling the good old days when he first started to watch the birth of Wolverhampton Wanderers

Top memory skillz Frank....
 
I have always had an interest in the early years of Wolves, and once Penk asked the question, it re-ignited the fire. It can be very frustrating as there is so little information about the between 1877 and 1883. But thanks to a lot of help from people who have far more knowledge of Wolves than me, I think slowly but surely little titbits of information are being found. If any of you folks out there have any information about our early years, then I would be most grateful for any assistance.
 
I used to love my visits to the archives in the Molineux Hotel when doing the Wolves-Stats stuff.

Not a great deal of football coverage in the E&S in those days though. Lucky if they printed 3 lines about a match
 
Not a great deal of football coverage in the E&S in those days though. Lucky if they printed 3 lines about a match

"Wolves are interested in Jack Brodie, but will have to wait for Christophe Berra to leave first"
 
I used to love my visits to the archives in the Molineux Hotel when doing the Wolves-Stats stuff.

Not a great deal of football coverage in the E&S in those days though. Lucky if they printed 3 lines about a match

There used to be a newspaper called "The Wolverhampton Chronicle", old copies of which are kept by the Wolverhampton Archives. This newspaper was in circulation during the formative years of the club, and I have been told I am welcome to go and search through their back copies, but it could be a mammoth search, but I may give it a try if all else fails.
 
The 2 books I have to hand,wolves the complete record by tony Matthews with les smith,and the essential history of wolverhampton wanderers again by tony Matthews both agree with the 13th January date mentioned above.
However the essential history then states in the appendix at the back
1883-84 pre-league FA cup results
Oct 27th wolves v long eaton rangers 4-1 Brodie 2 j griffiths 2 with a 2000 attendance
As the first official game by wolverhampton wanderers,further muddying the waters it would seem
 
Surely the club would know?
 
The 2 books I have to hand,wolves the complete record by tony Matthews with les smith,and the essential history of wolverhampton wanderers again by tony Matthews both agree with the 13th January date mentioned above.
However the essential history then states in the appendix at the back
1883-84 pre-league FA cup results
Oct 27th wolves v long eaton rangers 4-1 Brodie 2 j griffiths 2 with a 2000 attendance
As the first official game by wolverhampton wanderers,further muddying the waters it would seem

It is generally accepted that the 1877 game was the first played by Wolverhampton Wanderers, when in fact it was the first game played by St Lukes. Between that game and the FA Cup game against Long Eaton Rangers, very little is known about the club. The official history states that St Lukes became Wolverhampton Wanderers in 1879, but the written word by co founder Jack Brodie contradicts that. The full story is out there, but better men than me have thus far failed to find it.
 
Surely the club would know?

Sadly not, while the club were extremely helpful, and gave me various contacts who might help, they did say that until proved otherwise the official history is the one that the club will stand by. Though they did accept that there are certain areas of the clubs beginnings that remain open to question.
 
It is generally accepted that the 1877 game was the first played by Wolverhampton Wanderers,

Where is that generally accepted? Everything I have read on our history always states we were formed in 1877 as St Lukes and played as St Lukes for at least 2 years
 
Surely the club would know?

I wouldn't trust the club on our history. My Dad once found a coin that was issued by Wolves, so he sent a pic to the club to ask what it was for. They replied it was to celebrate the League Cup win in 1980.
He sent me the pic and it was stamped with all our honours upto 1977 and that was the year of issue, so it was either Wolves being able to see into the future or it was to celebrate the 100th Birthday of the club
 
Where is that generally accepted? Everything I have read on our history always states we were formed in 1877 as St Lukes and played as St Lukes for at least 2 years

I think because of the uncertainty over when St Lukes amalgamated with Wanderers cricket club, football historians seem to agree that the club was formed in 1877, despite a few name changes.

What very few people realise is that the club was formed in 1876, not 1877.
 
Isn't the 1877 date taken from the first game v Stafford Road?
 
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Isn't the 1877 date taken from the first game v Stafford Road?

I believe the 1877 was taken from the date when Goldthorn FC became St Lukes, which must have been very early in January 1877 as the first game was against Stafford Road on 13 January, so you may well be correct, but various people, myself included, have asked Wolves FC to acknowledge that the club was formed in 1876.
 
Can't see that happening. Whilst the first meeting was held in late 1876, they will take the date that a team actually played as their official start
 
Can't see that happening. Whilst the first meeting was held in late 1876, they will take the date that a team actually played as their official start

Correct. If you think of it as analagous to the Premier League being formed - the decision to break away from the Football League was taken in February 1992. The first games were played in August 1992 and that's the recognised start date.
 
Can't see that happening. Whilst the first meeting was held in late 1876, they will take the date that a team actually played as their official start

Which is what Wolves have basically said. But who is to say that Goldthorn FC did not play a game? There is no record that they did, but who knows? So given the limited available information, it is understandable that the club stand by 1877 as the beginnings of Wolves.
 
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