Early Days Information

[FrankMunro-371]

There was a game held at Windmill Field, Goldthorn Hill before the Stafford Road game.

Have you got any information on this game please.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Either way, our Year of Formation is 1877 unless someone manages to dig up records of a game played between November 10th & 31st December 1876

The club played its first known game in 1877, but at the Goldthorn general meeting in 1876 the club was formed.

 

[Kenny]

The idea was formed in 1876 the club was born in 1877 when they did the deed of playing a game (unless another game happened before Jan 1 of course. I really hope leeds or someone can shed light on the game that seems to have happened before the Stafford Road game)

 

[leedswolf]

Not really, he's confirmed it.

According to Patrick Quirke's "The origin of Wolverhampton Wanderers", St Lukes was formed in 1877.

 

[Dinowolf]

According to Patrick Quirke's "The origin of Wolverhampton Wanderers", St Lukes was formed in 1877.

No he doesn't.
He talks about the meeting that took place on 10th Nov 1876 and that the formation of the club was successful. He then says that the first match was played at 'Windmill Field' by this St. Luke's team but doesn't say who against.
He went on to say that the first recorded matches involving 'the Goldthorn Hill team on their own ground near the Orphanage' (q. John Brodie) took place at 3:30pm on 13th Jan 1877 against Stafford Road that they lost 0-8, reported in the local press.

 

[leedswolf]

No he doesn't.

Page 56 he does -

Many of the choir were former members of the school, and it was this group of friends that was to form the first St Lukes team.

Jack Baynton played a full and active part in the team that was first formed in 1877

 

[Dinowolf]

So leeds, you quote the first line of my post but ignore the rest.

Like Kenny says, as the first recorded match was 1877, then that has been taken as the date of formation, rather than the meeting, but only because there is no record of any previous matches that apparently took place.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Another great find was an account written by Brodie, on

the eve of Wolves’ 1908 FA Cup victory, of the club’s

founding; a resource which eluded the writers of previous

histories of the club.

In it, Brodie recalled how he and Jack Baynton had each

captained teams of schoolboys in playground matches

at St Luke’s School and, inspired by the town’s current

‘stars’ from the Stafford Road railway engine works, set

about forming their own club.

In the summer of 1876, Brodie and Baynton got permission

from the vicar to hold a meeting in the school, inviting

‘gentlemen interested’ in joining what they then called

Goldthorn Football Club. They were just fourteen at

the time, but very persuasive.

Formed mostly from former St Luke’s pupils, the new

team’s members each paid a shilling to join, and with permission

to use the Windmill Field near Goldthorn Hill,

they played their first game on 13th January 1877, against

Stafford Road Engine Works’ second team. The lads lost 8-

0, but the event made the local press.

 

[leedswolf]

So leeds, you quote the first line of my post but ignore the rest.

I was disputing your first line only. I haven't ignored the rest of the post. I didn't realize there was a need to comment further on something that wasn't being disputed. I actually made reference to the original Windmill Field match in an earlier post. The discussion had developed as to when St Lujes were formed.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

LW, you made reference to a game at Windmiill Field prior to the Stafford Road game. Have you got any details of this game?

 

[leedswolf]

No Frank. There is mention of this game in Quirke's book, but that is all.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

No Frank. There is mention of this game in Quirke's book, but that is all.

OK thanks. I wish I had a time machine and could go back to 1876/77......

 

[Kenny]

or just a better memory #frankisreallyoldjoke

 

[FrankMunro-371]

or just a better memory #frankisreallyoldjoke

I suppose I asked for that.....

And the referee was brilliant in our first game!!

 

[Dinowolf]

I was disputing your first line only. I haven't ignored the rest of the post. I didn't realize there was a need to comment further on something that wasn't being disputed. I actually made reference to the original Windmill Field match in an earlier post. The discussion had developed as to when St Lujes were formed.

I wasn't having a go leeds, just that my post was saying that IMO, Brodie's comments were implying that there were other games, but we do not have any record of them. I'm not going to fall out with anyone over whether Wolves were formed in 1876 or not, and will accept the official date of 1877, but I do have a strong feeling that it should be 1876.

 

[Dinowolf]

I suppose I asked for that.....

And the referee was brilliant in our first game!!

Did they have refs in those days, Frank?

 

[sycophantia]

Did they have refs in those days, Frank?

Suspect the refs then wore a dinner suit and ran the game while smoking a pipe and with a glass of sherry in hand

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I wasn't having a go leeds, just that my post was saying that IMO, Brodie's comments were implying that there were other games, but we do not have any record of them. I'm not going to fall out with anyone over whether Wolves were formed in 1876 or not, and will accept the official date of 1877, but I do have a strong feeling that it should be 1876.

There are a good number of people who think that 1876 was the year we were formed, but I can understand the other point of view, and the stance taken by the club. I was told that unless some-one can prove that a game was played in 1876 then the club will continue to regard 1877 as the year we were formed.

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

Do all clubs use the year they played their first match as the year they were formed? I'd have thought that a club would have to have been formed beforehand before a game could be organised? I'd love to know more about our history, if I had the time I'd be hitting the Wolvo archives big time.

I've read a little on our history in various books and my take on it is that a meeting was held in 1876 and the formation of a club was agreed upon and it looks like it was originally named after Goldthorn Hill. Some time after that because of the number of ex St Lukes School members involved in the team whether by design or because most people associated the players with St Lukes the name was changed, this doesn't affect the fact that it was still the same club first mooted in that meeting in 1876. When the side moved to Dudley Road and merged with the Cricket club they became known as Wanderers, and some unknown time after that they became Wolverhampton Wanderers, possibly because we were considered the best side in the town. It's the same club throughout and it's such a shame that information on our formative years is so scarce.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Do all clubs use the year they played their first match as the year they were formed? I'd have thought that a club would have to have been formed beforehand before a game could be organised? I'd love to know more about our history, if I had the time I'd be hitting the Wolvo archives big time.

I've read a little on our history in various books and my take on it is that a meeting was held in 1876 and the formation of a club was agreed upon and it looks like it was originally named after Goldthorn Hill. Some time after that because of the number of ex St Lukes School members involved in the team whether by design or because most people associated the players with St Lukes the name was changed, this doesn't affect the fact that it was still the same club first mooted in that meeting in 1876. When the side moved to Dudley Road and merged with the Cricket club they became known as Wanderers, and some unknown time after that they became Wolverhampton Wanderers, possibly because we were considered the best side in the town. It's the same club throughout and it's such a shame that information on our formative years is so scarce.

From what I know IFM, I would say you are not far off the mark. The one point that I would mention is that according to co-founder Jack Brodie, the amalgamation did take place in 1879, but St Lukes did not want to lose their identity, and would not change their name until the right deal came along. Then in 1881, the Dudley Road ground was offered to the club, and it would appear that this satisfied St Lukes, who then agreed to change their name. But with the cricket club holding seniority, the club was called "The Wanderers Cricket and Football team." This was soon changed to "Wanderers Football Team," but it seems unclear when the prefix "Wolverhampton" was added.