Del Woppio
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Chants don't tend to have caveats or nuance. I'll not play your games tonight though, I can't be arsed.
Israel-Palestine
- Thread starter pavlosmacwolf
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Well, Hamas claimed responsibility for 7th October, so there's your relationship right there. Would take about 4 seconds to Google btw
Del Woppio
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You've completely misunderstood my point
Wilf Wolf
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Maybe if Israel showed some genuine movement to a two state solution radical Palestinian groups would have no place. As it is the Palestinian population is trapped in Gaza and Israel is encroaching more and more into the West Bank. Israel doesn’t want a two state solution and somewhere in the future their ever increasing number of enemies will wipe Israel of the map. Only needs a levelling up of military power. Might not be in our lifetime but if they keep electing the likes of Netanyahu and killing innocent civilians they have nearly starved to death, peace will never come and right minded people will despise the extreme elements of both sides.
Wellen Wolf
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jd1981... you ignore all 10 points about Israel and start yet again on the centuries old victims.
1. Wikipedia is a better reference than your ´the Israelis were there a 1000 years ago´ statement. It´s pretty full. It´s also standard to criticise Wikipedia but if you don´t like their section on it then please present a fuller and more accurate history.
2. Hamas is an unfortunate consequence of the invasion, genocide and suppression of people in a cage. History is littered with examples of ´freedom fighter´ extremists gone ´terrorist´. What do you expect? Just like in Canada, USA, Mexico, Peru, Brazil, Ireland, the Basque Country, all 48 or so countries in Africa, and as good as all of Australasia and other countries present and past.
Palestine?
Concessions? I think they have made more than enough since the Balfour Declaration. There simply is no balance with what the Zionists have done and continue to do.
You keep going on about them being the same. They aren´t. You simply don´t want to accept that it is an armed invasion by the Zionists. Try reflecting and calling it out for what it is. It´s not a BBC style balancing act on here!
Finally, how about reading this and then critically analysing it?
www.theguardian.com
That´s enough from me. I am going to enjoy an ice cold Erdinger Weissbier in my sunny garden. Lucky me. Pity the Palestinians can´t.
1. Wikipedia is a better reference than your ´the Israelis were there a 1000 years ago´ statement. It´s pretty full. It´s also standard to criticise Wikipedia but if you don´t like their section on it then please present a fuller and more accurate history.
2. Hamas is an unfortunate consequence of the invasion, genocide and suppression of people in a cage. History is littered with examples of ´freedom fighter´ extremists gone ´terrorist´. What do you expect? Just like in Canada, USA, Mexico, Peru, Brazil, Ireland, the Basque Country, all 48 or so countries in Africa, and as good as all of Australasia and other countries present and past.
Palestine?
Concessions? I think they have made more than enough since the Balfour Declaration. There simply is no balance with what the Zionists have done and continue to do.
You keep going on about them being the same. They aren´t. You simply don´t want to accept that it is an armed invasion by the Zionists. Try reflecting and calling it out for what it is. It´s not a BBC style balancing act on here!
Finally, how about reading this and then critically analysing it?
Don’t count on the Iran-Israel ceasefire lasting. What Netanyahu really wants is a forever war | Simon Tisdall
Like Putin, Israel’s prime minister sees continuing destruction as an opportunity to boost support and outflank his enemies, says Guardian columnist Simon Tisdall
That´s enough from me. I am going to enjoy an ice cold Erdinger Weissbier in my sunny garden. Lucky me. Pity the Palestinians can´t.
The Saturday Boy
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He hasn't.
Wellen Wolf
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I´ll give you the first one in your rather selective reference but the second one is ridiculous. Might be an idea to ask ChatGPT what genocide is... or are you still living off a CSE History grade 4 understanding?
See, we can all be smart Alec. Get´s us nowhere. Tschüssi!
So one of the first steps in your Middle East Peace Masterplan (sponsored by Wikipedia) is for both camps to disavow their 4,000/1,500 year old religions. Great idea!
About as likely as Palestinians choosing to crack open an Erdinger in their back gardens even if they could
jd1981
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If they follow their religion to its full then consuming alcohol would be sinful, to add I’ve provided 3 pretty credible references to my statement as @Alan requested so you’ve clearly ignored them also.jd1981... you ignore all 10 points about Israel and start yet again on the centuries old victims.
1. Wikipedia is a better reference than your ´the Israelis were there a 1000 years ago´ statement. It´s pretty full. It´s also standard to criticise Wikipedia but if you don´t like their section on it then please present a fuller and more accurate history.
2. Hamas is an unfortunate consequence of the invasion, genocide and suppression of people in a cage. History is littered with examples of ´freedom fighter´ extremists gone ´terrorist´. What do you expect? Just like in Canada, USA, Mexico, Peru, Brazil, Ireland, the Basque Country, all 48 or so countries in Africa, and as good as all of Australasia and other countries present and past.
Palestine?
Concessions? I think they have made more than enough since the Balfour Declaration. There simply is no balance with what the Zionists have done and continue to do.
You keep going on about them being the same. They aren´t. You simply don´t want to accept that it is an armed invasion by the Zionists. Try reflecting and calling it out for what it is. It´s not a BBC style balancing act on here!
Finally, how about reading this and then critically analysing it?
Don’t count on the Iran-Israel ceasefire lasting. What Netanyahu really wants is a forever war | Simon Tisdall
Like Putin, Israel’s prime minister sees continuing destruction as an opportunity to boost support and outflank his enemies, says Guardian columnist Simon Tisdall
That´s enough from me. I am going to enjoy an ice cold Erdinger Weissbier in my sunny garden. Lucky me. Pity the Palestinians can´t.
jd1981
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Yep and it’s what makes the whole thing so messy, Palestine has the right of existence there as does Israel. It’s all about how do you determine the right of the land. Sadly there will always be too many people too unhappy with whatever is decided for peace to fully exist.
Wilf Wolf
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The West Bank and Gaza is a pretty good starting point for a Palestinian state. The increase in settlements in the WB and the treatment of Gaza make that impossible which is what Israel wants. They don’t want a settlement, they want Palestinians to disappear.
Wellen Wolf
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´It’s all about how do you determine the right of the land.´
Your mixing things up jd.
If we agree that the Jews can claim historical rights based on their ancestors living there as you said earlier then the Arabs, Egyptians, Turks, Persians, British, Macedonians, Romans and Babylonians amongst others can also move in and claim their territory.
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If it's ok to wish death on the IDF because of the situation in Gaza, presumably the murder of Lee Rugby was fine because of what wlthe British Army did in Iraq?
Or is it different when the perps aren't Jewish?
Or is it different when the perps aren't Jewish?
Wellen Wolf
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So, what do you suggest that can reduce the problem rather than let it go on for ever? Fake Bronze Age goddy stuff is top of my listSo one of the first steps in your Middle East Peace Masterplan (sponsored by Wikipedia) is for both camps to disavow their 4,000/1,500 year old religions. Great idea!
About as likely as Palestinians choosing to crack open an Erdinger in their back gardens even if they could
PS Palestinians in Bayern often crack an Erdinger just like Muslim folk in Wolverhampton of my generation would quaff a pint of Banks´s Mild.
Alan
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Don't start. The IDF can be abhorrent and have earned the vitriol without it being anti-Semitic. Pulling that card says you're out of arguments.
Free Palestine is about fascism and genocide perpetrated by Israel. Not a single person has even vaguely gestured at thinking the IDF are war criminals because they're Jewish for fuck's fucking sake.
Paddingtonwolf
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If you really think the religions of the world are all unilaterally going to give up their belief systems then i have some magic beans to sell you
jd1981
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Well the Romans conquered Israel in about 63bce ending the Hasmonean dynasty.
Even still Israel was allowed to exist with its traditions as a puppet state under the likes of King Herod so Rome didn’t really settle numerous of its citizens there just made Israel a Roman colony.
As for Babylonia are you referring to old Babylonia or Neo- Babylonia?
Similar to the ottoman rule from the 16th century until the end of WW1 more a case of people keeping their traditions as opposed to being forced out at this time it was more Palestine only about 1k Jewish families existed in that region at that period.
I could keep going on about various empires, on the whole empires make nations puppet states as opposed to moving vast amounts of their own population and relocating them to those areas. Big, big difference the most recent example was the Soviet Union ie Turkmenistan didn’t have its population diluted by resettling Russians but was more just answering to the soviet state.
This is an argument about a whole people and traditions occupying areas not Empires passing through and subjugation.
jd1981
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Keep mentioning “Bronze Age god” that needs explaining. Do religions have time limits on them?
are you referring to the fact Judaism has existed for 4k years that their religion is outdated?
Whilst Judaism is monotheistic which can seem arrogant and dismissive but don’t Christians believe their god created the earth again arrogant.
Every religious god you can pick faults, contradictions etc in them
There are dozens of armies around the world that have done questionable things at the behest of their political leaders.
Yet nobody demands the members of those forces are murdered. Except in one very specific case, that entirely coincidentally happens to be the worlds only Jewish nation.
The IHRA definition of antisemitism contains a clause that addresses this very point:
'Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.'