Pre-season friendly thread

[Throbber3]

The one where we sacked off Moutinho and Saiss on the 24th May.

They still have a squad place but neither are starters for me.

 

[AndyWolves]

Then why talk about relegation before we've even played a meaningful game and had the chance to obtain any kind of result?

Because I don't know that Lage knows how to grind results? Nothing in his CV or games to date suggests he can.

Or put it another way, I haven't seen anything to assume relegation is a distant possibility for us.

To flip the question on its head, why aren't you concerned about relegation?

 

[Alan]

I honestly thought I'd be able to see the difference between a Nuno & Lage first half by now.

This idea is just wild to me.

 

[PuntsWolf]

What I'm pretty sure we had under Nuno was at least the ability to grind results, I have no idea if we have that now.

Did we actually though? We managed to get some results from relegation fodder with huge dollops of luck in the last third of the season.

The trajectory was down and at a rapid rate. You cannot say Nuno would have “ground out results”. He quite feasibly could have had us in the bottom third again. Bruno may be the same, but the evidence certainly isn’t there to say “Nuno would have been better”*. The opposite IMO.

* not necessarily a quote of you, but a theme that has been posted.

 

[thisisgil]

They still have a squad place but neither are starters for me.

I respect your perspective and sort of agree, but on the other hand I'm honestly at the point where I don't think they'd even be worth it as squad players after you take their salaries into account (particularly Mouthinho). Today was a chance for players to demonstrate what they are made of and stake a claim for the first team, yet I felt that both Saiss and Mouthinho were appaling today.

Could this be the season where Mouts finally irreparably tarnishes his Wolves legacy until he's nothing more than the Portuguese O'Hara?

(in the interests of balance: Hoever bloody brilliant today, Trincao exciting, Traore put a shift in, Coady did well and Kilman was really very solid. On the whole, I think we'll do as well this season as we did last, but with better football).

 

[AndyWolves]

Did we actually though? We managed to get some results from relegation fodder with huge dollops of luck in the last third of the season.

The trajectory was down and at a rapid rate. You cannot say Nuno would have “ground out results”. He quite feasibly could have had us in the bottom third again. Bruno may be the same, but the evidence certainly isn’t there to say “Nuno would have been better”*. The opposite IMO.

* not necessarily a quote of you, but a theme that has been posted.

I think we did grind quite a few games last season

I don't think there is any evidence to say Bruno will do better than Nuno would have.....yet.

 

[AndyWolves]

This idea is just wild to me.

Is it that mental? Watching the game today, if no-one had told you the manager was different, come half time would you have known?

 

[prawnking]

Because I don't know that Lage knows how to grind results? Nothing in his CV or games to date suggests he can.

Or put it another way, I haven't seen anything to assume relegation is a distant possibility for us.

To flip the question on its head, why aren't you concerned about relegation?

Because I think based on what has actually happened so far in reality (rather than doom projections) it would be an over the top worry based on little evidence.

Just like I wouldn't be dreaming about breaking into the top 6 if we'd battered every team we played this pre season

 

[Alan]

Is it that mental? Watching the game today, if no-one had told you the manager was different, come half time would you have known?

Given the amount of time that Bruno has had with the players, I think expecting the differences to have set in to that degree asking a bit much.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I think we did grind quite a few games last season

I don't think there is any evidence to say Bruno will do better than Nuno would have.....yet.

No evidence to say he would do any worse…

 

[Throbber3]

Is it that mental? Watching the game today, if no-one had told you the manager was different, come half time would you have known?

Yes as Neves spent most of his time in the opposing half and moutinho didn’t pass sideways or backwards. Players were also running and trying to find space to attack. That said it was a poor first half but I have seen worse last year under Nuno.
I haven’t seen a better second half against 11 men last year than how we played the second half today.

 

[AndyWolves]

Because I think based on what has actually happened so far in reality (rather than doom projections) it would be an over the top worry based on little evidence.

Just like I wouldn't be dreaming about breaking into the top 6 if we'd battered every team we played this pre season

What are your expectations for the coming season then?

 

[Tony Towner]

Given the amount of time that Bruno has had with the players, I think expecting the differences to have set in to that degree asking a bit much.

I've not seen any of pre season but from what most people say you can see a difference, even though he's been forced to play a formation he doesn't want to with players (I'm guessing) he doesn't really want.

It's perfecting feasible to see a change in style in pre season, the last manager being a clear example.

 

[Throbber3]

I've not seen any of pre season but from what most people say you can see a difference, even though he's been forced to play a formation he doesn't want to with players (I'm guessing) he doesn't really want.

It's perfecting feasible to see a change in style in pre season, the last manager being a clear example.

I have watched all the games pre season bar the behind closed doors .
differences
Not zonal at corners
Neves on all set pieces
20 yards higher all areas
10 yards narrower all areas
Front three attacking press.
Sa trying sweeper keeper style keeping outside his area when we are attacking
Traore told to cross quicker same as wing backs.
Lage never shuts up on the touch line or sits down

All of that appears different to last season to me.

 

[AndyWolves]

No evidence to say he would do any worse…

Well, there kind of is. The fact that we're trying to establish a change to our play style but not bringing in the players we need to do that suggests to me he will do worse.

 

[Johnny75]

Given the amount of time that Bruno has had with the players, I think expecting the differences to have set in to that degree asking a bit much.

Guardiola, Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Klopp, Rodgers and even Nuno himself would've. Why wouldn't you think Lage would?

In some respects he has but in others it's abjectly terrible. I hope he can get the players doing what he wants soon and consistently.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I've not seen any of pre season but from what most people say you can see a difference, even though he's been forced to play a formation he doesn't want to with players (I'm guessing) he doesn't really want.

It's perfecting feasible to see a change in style in pre season, the last manager being a clear example.

I think you've got a different scenario between the two changes of manager though.

Nuno took over from a man who had a fairly short period in charge, had minimal opportunity to shape the squad into his image and didn't really have the team playing with any great identity.

Lage is taking over from someone having had a pretty lengthy reign by modern standards with ample opportunity to build his own squad and stamp his identity on the team over that period of time.

To me it's little surprise the latter may find it more difficult to suddenly swing things his way with quite the same haste that the former was able to, irrespective of the strengths and weaknesses of either individual.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I've not seen any of pre season but from what most people say you can see a difference, even though he's been forced to play a formation he doesn't want to with players (I'm guessing) he doesn't really want.

It's perfecting feasible to see a change in style in pre season, the last manager being a clear example.

I agree, but it is apples and oranges. One manager had a full pre season with a war chest and a group of players far too good for the division. The other doesn’t have a pot to piss in with an average squad and some players not good enough for the division.

Edit - plus what Mark said

 

[prawnking]

What are your expectations for the coming season then?

As it stands today, as I've already stated I expect a 12th-14th finish, with a few batterings for and against. Difficult to say conclusively till the window is shut and when we only have pre-season to go on.

I'm not convinced that Bruno's ambitions for our playing style can be met by the transfers we can make, or even by his own ability as manager, but time will tell.

My eldest lad thinks we'll go down, so I'm glad I've passed some residual Wolves fatalism onto him

 

[Throbber3]

Well, there kind of is. The fact that we're trying to establish a change to our play style but not bringing in the players we need to do that suggests to me he will do worse.

That surely would not be down to him though? If he bought 4 in and we were shit then it’s on him.