REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Del Woppio]

Italy have suspended the Schengen Treaty on their border with Slovakia for a minimum of ten days after migration numbers have nearly doubled this year:

Prime Minister: The suspension of the Schengen Treaty on free movement in Europe has become necessary due to the worsening situation in the Middle East, the increase in migratory flows along the Balkan route and, above all, due to national security issues.

 

[leedswolf]

Bamford was one of the major funders of Brexit through JCB. He hates the EU because JCB were fined €90 million by the ECJ for breaking the single market rules (they were selling their products for different prices in different member countries). Bamford thought that the rules didn't apply to him and his business...looks like he might find out that other rules apply to him soon...

Tory donors from JCB empire could face £500m bill to settle tax inquiry

Exclusive: HMRC investigation into peer Anthony Bamford and his brother focuses on offshore trusts that own business empire

www.theguardian.com

 

[Templeton Peck]

England to diverge from EU water monitoring standards

Exclusive: campaigners fear less rigorous methods could lead to more pollution in rivers and waterways

www.theguardian.com

Thank god we now have the freedom to have shit water.

 

[Tredman]

Very good long read today, worth going through before raging about the above

Down the drain: What went wrong with Britain's water system?

If you were going to design Britain's sewage system from scratch today, the one we have, to put it mildly, isn't the design you'd pick. But for most of the country, it's simply too late. Most urban areas have systems that "bake in" sewage spills pretty much forever.

news.sky.com

 

[Templeton Peck]

Very good long read today, worth going through before raging about the above

Down the drain: What went wrong with Britain's water system?

If you were going to design Britain's sewage system from scratch today, the one we have, to put it mildly, isn't the design you'd pick. But for most of the country, it's simply too late. Most urban areas have systems that "bake in" sewage spills pretty much forever.

news.sky.com

Almost as if privatisation wasn't a very good idea.

 

[Tredman]

Almost as if privatisation wasn't a very good idea.

True. But was worse before privitisation

 

[Templeton Peck]

True. But was worse before privitisation

Just needs investment. Nobody should be making profit off water.

 

[Tredman]

Just needs investment. Nobody should be making profit off water.

Perhaps. But it needed investment before privitisation and didn't get it, so

 

[Templeton Peck]

Perhaps. But it needed investment before privitisation and didn't get it, so

Govts will deliberately run state industries into the ground so they can present privatisation as the only answer. It's happening with the NHS now. Oldest trick in the book.

 

[Tredman]

Govts will deliberately run state industries into the ground so they can present privatisation as the only answer. It's happening with the NHS now. Oldest trick in the book.

Off to visit a Chinese water utility next week or so. I'll report back on the no doubt glorious operational state

 

[Templeton Peck]

Off to visit a Chinese water utility next week or so. I'll report back on the no doubt glorious operational state

Erm...OK.

 

[Johnny75]

Just needs investment. Nobody should be making profit off water.

This obsession you have with the government being better than private companies is bordering on bizarre.

British Rail, Severn Trent, MEB and others were run horrifically as an old boys club. Nothing to do with investment, they were just shit.

 

[Templeton Peck]

This obsession you have with the government being better than private companies is bordering on bizarre.

British Rail, Severn Trent, MEB and others were run horrifically as an old boys club. Nothing to do with investment, they were just shit.

Uh huh.

 

[AndyWolves]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648731206408601615

 

[Wellen Wolf]

Just needs investment. Nobody should be making profit off water.

I guess you could have added that several water companies have been accused in the non-right wing media of taking out massive loans that then get channeled into dividends rather than into looking after our water supply.

 

[Johnny75]

I guess you could have added that several water companies have been accused in the non-right wing media of taking out massive loans that then get channeled into dividends rather than into looking after our water supply.

You can't loan money for dividends, that's illegal.

 

[Tredman]

You can't loan money for dividends, that's illegal.

There is a suspiciously close link between dividends and leveraged buyouts.

 

[Johnny75]

There is a suspiciously close link between dividends and leveraged buyouts.

Indeed, but leveraging but usually involves somebody else buying something.

Loaning to make a profit and then paying dividends is illegal as far as I know.

Water companies wouldn't be able to do it.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

You keep it at arms length and the money from the loan boosts cash reserves which increases the capacity to pay a dividend. Dodgy as fuck though

 

[Wellen Wolf]

Interesting follow-up. On my part my expertise is not in finance so I can't make the kind of analysis you guys can. I follow politics and I found this which is from Dame Angela Eagle (Labour for Wallasey) in Hansard debated on 28 June of this year:

When they were privatised, water companies had all the debt written off, so they started with zero. Since then, they have borrowed £53 billion, much of which has been used to help pay £72 billion in dividends. The investment has been made by borrowing and putting it on to customers’ bills. Now, the ratings agency S&P has negative outlooks for two thirds of the UK water companies it rates, because they are over-leveraged and took out too much debt in an era of low interest, which they now have to pay back. This is not a triumph but a huge problem for the resilience of our water industry. What will the Minister do when water companies start falling over?

Khalid Mahmood (Labour for Perry Barr) added:

...funding and loans to the water companies are a huge issue, as that is where they have paid their dividends from. On shareholders, we have foreign investors taking huge amounts of money away from this country, and we need better fund managers who are able to assess where they put their money. They should be held accountable, too.
Ofwat has not been doing what it is supposed to do. I believe that the chief executive of Ofwat applied for a job at Thames Water. That shows what the companies are doing and how Ofwat works with them—rather than scrutinising them, people are looking for the next job.

Claims like this do not signify guilt but it all looks as dodgy as one might expect especially in terms of asking where's the money gone as it ain't gone on infrastructure, reasonable bills and safeguarding of clean water and the environment.