• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

Straight reds and take it for the team fouling. Another option?

D

Deleted Cyber

Guest
Gentlemen and Ladies,

There has been much debate on here about diving, professional fouls and straight reds. Having seen us get some fairly soft reds in the last few seasons and winning appeals I think there needs to be another option. Sending off the last man is open to interpretation but at least you get guidance as a ref from the FA as to how you should interpret it, even if many refs still cock it up . What about those dangerous tackles that get a red in the centre of the field. If that happens in the 90th minute and the player “takes one for the team” they may have prevented a goal scoring opportunity but if its outside the box there is often no other recourse and no penalty for that game so the “take one for the team” mantra goes on. I would like to see every straight red outside the box incur the option of a penalty kick INSTEAD of the sending off. That way if a player commits a professional take one for the team or reckless challenge it can be instantly punishable. The player would receive a yellow and the opposition would receive a penalty. The decider would be the opposition captain who would be given the choice by the ref- Send off the opponent or yellow card plus penalty. That way the team who has been offended against can choose what situation suits them best. If they are 1-0 up after half an hour it may be better to play the rest of the game against 10 men. If its 0-0 and 5 minutes to go then take the penalty. That would stop the take it for the team fouls.
Of course violent conduct would always be straight red but perhaps that too could result in a penalty as well? By violent conduct I mean a punch or a headbutt not this handbags like Ikeme got. I know its the definition but that needs changing too. If a player acts on impulse and pushes another over it should be a yellow.Punch them , slap them, throttle them, hands to the face, is a red.

What do you think?
 
Why? Games are often ruined by red cards or strategic reds can preserve a lead.

Not all red cards fall into one of those categories though do they?

Look at the Arsenal game yesterday, Xhaka got sent off because he's a dumb fuck who can't tackle properly, don't think there was any great malice in it and there certainly wasn't any strategic value to stopping Defour in that situation. Giving them the option of a penalty in place of that sending off would have been nonsense.
 
Decision resting with the captain of the opposition is the first strike against the idea. That is just a complete non-starter.

How do you define "take one for the team"? Most take one for the team challenges are actually yellow card offences. The classic example is Breen's second yellow against Norwich in the 5-2 defeat in the year we went up. Nothing dangerous about the challenge whatsoever.
 
We won the 'Breen' game 1-0, Jan 07. Stears got sent off in the 5-2 game for two yellows I think.

Milijas at Arsenal, imagine if we'd conceded a late penalty because the terrible ref completely misinterpreted a nothing challenge in the middle of the pitch.
 
Arse - I still think it is a great example though. It was not a dangerous challenge. He knew exactly what he was doing. He took one for the team and we played on with ten. Perfectly fine by me. Why should they suddenly get a penalty?
 
I can totally see where you're coming from with this and reduces the incentive for the "offending" team. It does add even more weight to a single decision though and I can see that putting refs under even more pressure (it's hard enough as it is)

I do think there is some mileage in looking at how penalties are given and not only give penalties when players "go down" but when an infringement happens, combined with this I think retrospective action on diving needs to be way harsher - 5 game ban or something. There will be occasions where that's irrelevant (i.e. Cup finals etc) but it's a start.

I also think shirt pulling, wrestling etc also needs to be clamped down on and get yellow cards straight away and if it's in the box it's a pen - players would soon learn.

I'd also abolish this "interfering with play" rule - if you're offside you are offside, no need for interpretation unless you're behind the goal line with Andy Mutch.

It's not the complete answer but should get rid of the more twattish elements of the game. :)
 
Cyber, a great discussion point, but totally unworkable. Refs are mostly incompetent by necessity as it is, this just further complicates a gme that was so simple, until the ideas men got involved.
I nevervwant tonsee football with computer analysts on the sidelines, you are? I think? Opening that door.
 
Cyber, a great discussion point, but totally unworkable. Refs are mostly incompetent by necessity as it is, this just further complicates a gme that was so simple, until the ideas men got involved.
I nevervwant tonsee football with computer analysts on the sidelines, you are? I think? Opening that door.

If computer analysts mean correct decisions are made i'm all for it - I really don't subscribe that referring mistakes are part of the game and provide talking points.
 
If computer analysts mean correct decisions are made i'm all for it - I really don't subscribe that referring mistakes are part of the game and provide talking points.

You are right of course, but that is not the game I played and followed for years, and it is not the game I want to see, video referrals, OK, the ref is human and with a zillion TV cameras on every game he has no chance, but please!!!!! Let us keep footie as simple as possible for as long as possible.
 
Sending a player off for what is termed a professional foul is of course open to interpretation, and as with every other law, it is in the opinion of the referee. I am not sure that I agree that many referees "cock it up."

A penalty kick cannot be awarded if the infringement takes place outside the penalty area. Well that is how the law is now, and I cannot see that being changed anytime soon.

Presuming the laws of the game were altered to allow for this to happen, I would be against the captain being asked whether he wants a penalty kick or a red card for the offending player. The referee is there to enforce the laws, not negotiate them with captains.
 
Just looking for ideas to improve the game and stop cheating and spark debate. I get what Frank says re ref in charge completely. Rather than change the rules then we need a review system. Ikeme may still be sent off for the push but a review would probably have said no pen. I just want the right decision. It works most of the time in cricket and rugby. So what if it adds as couple of minutes to a game. The technology is there use it
 
It's not really though, there are only the requisite number of cameras at Premier League games in this country. Sure, we all think it's a dive by Hoolahan based on the reaction of our players, it certainly looks more than a bit iffy, but I don't think you can call it 100% conclusively based on the one angle available. You wouldn't be overturning decisions based on that evidence.
 
It's not really though, there are only the requisite number of cameras at Premier League games in this country. Sure, we all think it's a dive by Hoolahan based on the reaction of our players, it certainly looks more than a bit iffy, but I don't think you can call it 100% conclusively based on the one angle available. You wouldn't be overturning decisions based on that evidence.

Current levels yes but come on this sport can afford a million Quid's worth of cameras ast every premier ground and half a million on championship. Agreed re lower leagues but the top leagues are awash with money so cough up
 
The cynic in me wonders if technology isn't more widely used because bad decisions by officials does provide entertainment and talking points. Without that a significant amount of analysis, talking points etc. It's not right but I understand it
 
my view is to use the technology that's available. if it's not there at a particular game, then there's no issue - it can't be used.

if a ref blows for a pen, there are occasions when he's referred to the linesman and reverses a decision. what's the difference if he gets a video ref opinion as well?
if a goal is scored with an air of offside, why is there a problem in getting a video decision if that provides a better view?
in both instances the game has already stopped.

wasn't it at the South African WC that a goal was scored from an offside position and we saw the ridiculous scenario where because the replay was shown in the ground, everyone knew it was offside pretty much immediately and well before the teams lined back up for the restart. but the ref couldn't reverse his decision. so instead they decided not to show replays in future because somehow that makes a bad decision better?

as for diving - as Andy suggests it's always been easy to solve through retrospective review and punishment. allow the panel to decide on the length of ban for up to ten games (say for repeat/worst offenders - eg cynical self trippers). a potential yellow card provides virtually no disincentive compared to the possibility of a penalty award.
 
Back
Top