Brighton (H) 30/4: Build-Up & Match Thread

[AndyWolves]

If we'd even displayed reasonable form since February we'd have made Europe, instead we've gone along at not much more than 1PPG and we're getting worse. It's a missed chance on the basis that Man Utd are shit and West Ham currently have bigger fish to fry.

I'd love to know why people think Lage is going to do a good job, because it can't be based on the football he plays, who he's signed so far (if he has much of a say in that area) or what he says publicly, which is nothing more than garbled nonsense a lot of the time.

For me, Lage has surpassed the expectations I had for us this season. In my eyes he's got a worse squad than in previous seasons but still achieved good results. Whether the current slide can be arrested is another question though.

 

[YoungWolf]

For me, Lage has surpassed the expectations I had for us this season. In my eyes he's got a worse squad than in previous seasons but still achieved good results. Whether the current slide can be arrested is another question though.

I predicted 12th and voted 11th-14th so obviously won't be disappointed if we even finish 9th. I don't think this is a current slide though, I think this is how we have generally performed all season we are just reverting to the mean outcome wise.

The disappointing part for Lage and his coaching performance will be the opportunity we got ourselves too and couldn't take advantage of. That also applies to the board and not backing him in January too, however.

 

[Tony Towner]

Surely those who continue to say 8th is better than I expected have to see it with a broader lense?

Take the initial statement as a given, even ignore the very unlikely stats re goals scored and conceded versus chances, although I think you'd be wrong to do so. However I fail to see how 8th is better than expected = a good job, without looking at the latter part of the season, where incorrect team selections, a passive style of play, weak in game management and a soft mentality have killed the European hopes against a backdrop of the 2 teams above us genuinely not caring about the league.

At lockdown Sheff Utd were 7th, they had a poor end to the season and didn't recover. 8th is relevant, so is momentum

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's the worst of Nuno's football without the heart or any credit in the bank, with added gibberish and throwing players under the bus. We will of course wait it out until our dross form continues into next season before doing anything about it.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

That only changes when the creative ability of the team changes and the finishing abilty of the team changes. We know what we get from the current midfield and , whilst it gives us lots to be grateful for in Neves and Moutinho , neither score many goals. Dendoncker creates little and scores few, Semedo for all his attacking intent neither has the assists or the goals to show for it. Marcal can cross occassionally but no body is on the end of it , well apart from the odd og!

I am not convinced by Lage, but I am also not convinced by a lot of the current squad. I would be quite happy to see five or six changes in personnel for the matchday squad for next season and a change in style to 4 at the back with Otto and Ait-Nouri as full backs. A 4-2-2-2 system or similar that may(only may) enable Hwang and or Fabio to do better centrally as they both seem to need a partner up front. I understand the desire to swap Lage, but I would only swap if the owners then back the new manager to get who they want and play how they want. Without personnel changes , style and performance improvement is unlikely.

I don’t think it is all about the players. We are just so passive in possession and create very few good openings and that’s as much because we get so few players in the box as the ability of the players.

Last year some Chelsea fans were no doubt blaming defenders for the lack of clean sheets under Lampard yet Tuchel came in and suddenly the same defenders looked really solid. How a manager sets a team up can determine how players perform. Lage is focusing on clean sheets and nicking a goal. When it works it’s fine but as soon as we go behind we’re screwed as his approach doesn’t change. Go out to not lose and generally you do. Sa has almost single handedly got us higher in the league than our performances warrant and that is not sustainable in the long term and I think a lot of our squad could contribute more with a different approach and mindset.

 

[WsWolf]

Well, if it’s goals he’s looking for, I guess he’d have a point.

He could still be playing now after the weekend and he wouldn’t have scored. Just doesn’t look like he has any strikers instinct, to me. And, of course, some better service would help.

Unless, of course, he’s looking for strikers that look like puppy dogs chasing balloons?

If so, Fab’s your man.

I think that's unfair. He's scored good 'strikers' goals for us where he's dropped into a nice pocket of space in the box and finished it (West Ham & Albion come to mind). He had a knack of just being where the ball dropped last season but often snatched at the chances as he was over eager.

It's hard to be in a position to score goals when you are having to pick the ball up 30/40 yards from goal for 85% of the game.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's easy to say "we're 8th", I think everyone knows deep down it's a false position.

Potter, Hasenhüttl, Vieira, Rodgers, Howe, Frank, Marsch. All manage clubs who are currently below us in the table but they're also far better managers than Lage. In fact take Smith, Rangnick (not really even a manager these days) and Dyche (given Burnley haven't appointed anyone) out of the equation and I'd take any other current Premier League manager over Lage. Even Gerrard and Lampard, at least they have pull in terms of who they can sign, we don't even have that because he's a nobody.

 

[prawnking]

The disappointing part for Lage and his coaching performance will be the opportunity we got ourselves too and couldn't take advantage of. That also applies to the board and not backing him in January too, however.

If you're going to be uber critical you could apply that to us under Nuno in the PL too.

We didn't take advantage of a lead in an FA Cup semi final, or a penalty in a EL QF, and we probably won't take advantage of the opportunity for 6th/7th this season.

Those achievements are tough to get over the line for clubs like us, we have form for near-misses in recent years for sure

 

[Templeton Peck]

Football in Nuno's last 18 months was terrible and he talked plenty of crap in that time too. And it was with his squad of players playing his preferred system. If someone had offered me 8th at the start of the season I'd have ripped your arm off.

 

[prawnking]

Football in Nuno's last 18 months was terrible and he talked plenty of crap in that time too. And it was with his squad of players playing his preferred system. If someone had offered me 8th at the start of the season I'd have ripped your arm off.

This is pretty much where I'm at.

Managers talking a bit of nonsense for the cameras doesn't bother me too much, I know it riles others though.

I think criticism of Lage's selections, game management and the lack of any progressive style change on the horizon are fair sticks to beat him with however

 

[YoungWolf]

If you're going to be uber critical you could apply that to us under Nuno in the PL too.

We didn't take advantage of a lead in an FA Cup semi final, or a penalty in a EL QF, and we probably won't take advantage of the opportunity for 6th/7th this season.

Those achievements are tough to get over the line for clubs like us, we have form for near-misses in recent years for sure

We are nowhere near the standard of Nuno's first three seasons though (this is not all Bruno's fault, I'm not here saying the guy is total rubbish either)

 

[YoungWolf]

Football in Nuno's last 18 months was terrible and he talked plenty of crap in that time too. And it was with his squad of players playing his preferred system. If someone had offered me 8th at the start of the season I'd have ripped your arm off.

And everyone would still be happy with 8th I think (or most would) in terms of achieving more than expected but the actual standard of performance is a worry for me. It would be even if we somehow finished 6th this season, because I wouldn't think it's sustainable. I'd still be able to enjoy the fact that we finished wherever we do though!

 

[AndyWolves]

I predicted 12th and voted 11th-14th so obviously won't be disappointed if we even finish 9th. I don't think this is a current slide though, I think this is how we have generally performed all season we are just reverting to the mean outcome wise.

The disappointing part for Lage and his coaching performance will be the opportunity we got ourselves too and couldn't take advantage of. That also applies to the board and not backing him in January too, however.

If these are our normal levels it was never an opportunity.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

And everyone would still be happy with 8th I think (or most would) in terms of achieving more than expected but the actual standard of performance is a worry for me. It would be even if we somehow finished 6th this season, because I wouldn't think it's sustainable. I'd still be able to enjoy the fact that we finished wherever we do though!

You’ve hit the nail on the head. If we play the same next season the chances of a top half finish are very remote.

 

[YoungWolf]

If these are our normal levels it was never an opportunity.

It became an opportunity through a mixture of luck and some good coaching/performance. We didn't take an advantage in January, nor did Lage manage to further develop our style/performance (imo!)

 

[Sniffer]

Kilman, Neves and Podence still out.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

Football in Nuno's last 18 months was terrible and he talked plenty of crap in that time too. And it was with his squad of players playing his preferred system. If someone had offered me 8th at the start of the season I'd have ripped your arm off.

This is true and so would I [have taken 8th]. That doesn't mean that the style of football and boredom we have regressed to should be acceptable though.

Personally I would keep Lage*, primarily because I don't think we'd appoint anyone else other than a Mendes stooge anyway, but have a real squad overhaul. Unfortunately as Fosun don't appear to be proactive anymore and our top level management (Shi/Sellers) don't 'appear' concerned, then this overhaul is unlikely to happen. Jorge favours now appearing to be the only exception.
I've previously posted the career stats of our offensive players and they make shocking reading. Upgrades and changes are certainly needed but so too is a change required to those doing the scouting and recruiting.

*Lage spends most games frantically waving at his players to get forward and to do so more quickly. This is either for the fans benefit or the eleven on the pitch are unable/want to do so. That said, he continues to pick regularly (Hwang, Marcel, Semedo) those that chop back or kill attacks on a regular basis, rather than starting with free running players like Traore, Chiquinho or Ait-Nori.

P.S. I'm not contradicting myself here, I wouldn't have started with two of those three either!

 

[prawnking]

We are nowhere near the standard of Nuno's first three seasons though (this is not all Bruno's fault, I'm not here saying the guy is total rubbish either)

For my part, I'm not here advocating Bruno myself. I'm just saying that missing opportunities didn't just become a thing when he rocked up.

Compare the attacking riches Nuno had in those seasons (a fully firing Raul, Neto and Adama, not to mention Jota) to what Bruno has had this season and it's surely understandable that we're not as impressive? A lot has changed since the peak of Nunoball.

Saying that, he's still got a good tune out of the defence and midfield (Kilman, Neves and Moutinho big improvements on last year) though.

Bruno certainly has responsibility for some of the negatives of this season, but it's only fair that he also gets credit for what's worked, and credit for where we are in the league.

 

[Johnny75]

For my part, I'm not here advocating Bruno myself. I'm just saying that missing opportunities didn't just become a thing when he rocked up.

Compare the attacking riches Nuno had in those seasons (a fully firing Raul, Neto and Adama, not to mention Jota) to what Bruno has had this season and it's surely understandable that we're not as impressive? A lot has changed since the peak of Nunoball.

Saying that, he's still got a good tune out of the defence and midfield (Kilman, Neves and Moutinho big improvements on last year) though.

Bruno certainly has responsibility for some of the negatives of this season, but it's only fair that he also gets credit for what's worked, and credit for where we are in the league.

He knew what the squad was and still took the job.

No good moaning about it now. Our recruitment has been fucking shit for years.

 

[prawnking]

Our recruitment has been fucking shit for years.

Amen to that