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Israel-Palestine

Del Woppio said:
I'd thought it would sensibly follow that I don't like Hamas and wouldn't want them involved in a free Palestine
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I mean, I'd have thought it would sensibly follow that I care about Palestinian deaths, but apparently not, so I guess that's where this thread is at...
 
prawnking said:
You don't think there's a clear distinction between the deliberate, targeted murder of civilians and the deaths of civilians that result from attacks on military targets? You do know there were Nazi's at Nuremberg who agreed with you?
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This is where I am. And I can't ignore why Gazan civilians are so close to military targets too.
 
Del Woppio said:
The difference is you believe the IDF are solely going after military targets and the civilian deaths are accidental or unavoidable. I disagree.
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It's quite an accusation to accuse a democratic country of deliberately targeting civilians, so until proven otherwise I don't think that is the aim. There's definite recklessness there though, and they need to start furnishing the media with proof as to their targets, or the accusations will gain strength.

Whereas with Hamas, it's undeniable that the aim was literally targeting, brutalising and kidnapping civilians. And they also deserve condemnation for not separating their military structures in Gaza from civilian areas
 
Surely a countries government has a duty of care to keep it's people safe? Putting targets of war near civilians doesn't do that, for me anyway.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
A) it has, as per the two articles I posted above which is where this topic started, and you got involved in!?

"Hamas has agreed to the general outlines of this deal, but Israel - which has since bombarded and sent forces into Gaza - has not and is still negotiating the details, the official said."

B) So it's all or nothing in your mind? What weird logic is that? Surely you are actually devaluing the lives of the hostages by having that mindset.

Get 50 hostages back and safe with their families, then work on getting the last 190.

Or just continue to have all 240 missing.
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I know you are an argumentative fucker, but i didn't have you down as totally stupid.
the I D F, is slowly dismantling Hamas.
So, Hamas gives 50 hostages for a week long ceasefire, and uses the time to move forces, weapons stores, et al, all underground and thus out of site to give them a better position to attack the IDF, who sit in place for all to see above ground.
Two weeks later when the IDF locTe the new positions, hey ho, another 50 hostages for a other week of ceasefire, and around we go again.
All Hamas have going for them is the hostages, and if you let them dribble them out like a trail of corn for a chicken, you are playng into their hands for 4 or 5 weeks of ceasefire while they reposition.
Assuming the bulk of the hostages are still alive, which i very much doubt.

Oh, yes, and the first female hostage they release who tells the inevitable stories of how she has been raped and abused daily, they will have fucked what little propaganda they have going for them, so she's a definate gonner.
Not so difficult to understand, is it?
 
prawnking said:
As citizens of democratic countries, why wouldn't we prefer a Gaza with a stable, democratically elected government, rather than a bunch of genocidal Islamist barbarians? Yet it's hardly ever mentioned.
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Has it really never occured to you that the Israeli government has no interest in a stable elected government in Gaza?

The best Gazans can look forward to is what the Palestinians in the West Bank have to tolerate.
 
prawnking said:
It's quite an accusation to accuse a democratic country of deliberately targeting civilians, so until proven otherwise I don't think that is the aim. There's definite recklessness there though, and they need to start furnishing the media with proof as to their targets, or the accusations will gain strength.

Whereas with Hamas, it's undeniable that the aim was literally targeting, brutalising and kidnapping civilians. And they also deserve condemnation for not separating their military structures in Gaza from civilian areas
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Well the IDF were killing children and civilians prior to October 7th, it's not a stretch to think they've ramped it up now they've got the world willing them on.

'reckless' is such a rancid excuse.
 
Giving a Netanyahu government the benefit of the doubt is like giving a 21st century Tory government in the UK the benefit of the doubt.

"Making their own poorest people even poorer in the 6th largest economy in the world just because would be ridiculous, until it's proven that they do that then we shouldn't jump to conclusions".
 
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
Has it really never occured to you that the Israeli government has no interest in a stable elected government in Gaza?

The best Gazans can look forward to is what the Palestinians in the West Bank have to tolerate.
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No.
I think after this, international pressure will force this not to be the case ever again.
The USA are already saying Israel cannot have occupation after this is over.
Finally, the world has had enough.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
I know you are an argumentative fucker, but i didn't have you down as totally stupid.
the I D F, is slowly dismantling Hamas.
So, Hamas gives 50 hostages for a week long ceasefire, and uses the time to move forces, weapons stores, et al, all underground and thus out of site to give them a better position to attack the IDF, who sit in place for all to see above ground.
Two weeks later when the IDF locTe the new positions, hey ho, another 50 hostages for a other week of ceasefire, and around we go again.
All Hamas have going for them is the hostages, and if you let them dribble them out like a trail of corn for a chicken, you are playng into their hands for 4 or 5 weeks of ceasefire while they reposition.
Assuming the bulk of the hostages are still alive, which i very much doubt.

Oh, yes, and the first female hostage they release who tells the inevitable stories of how she has been raped and abused daily, they will have fucked what little propaganda they have going for them, so she's a definate gonner.
Not so difficult to understand, is it?
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Goodness me, aren't you a pleasant individal, and you had the cheek to say I was treating the lives of the hostages as pawns :ROFLMAO:
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Giving a Netanyahu government the benefit of the doubt is like giving a 21st century Tory government in the UK the benefit of the doubt.

"Making their own poorest people even poorer in the 6th largest economy in the world just because would be ridiculous, until it's proven that they do that then we shouldn't jump to conclusions".
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I don't see Netanyahu lasting 5 minutes after this is over.
My pals in israel, say he is gone for good as soon as this ends, if it goes on too long, it will be sooner.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
Goodness me, aren't you a pleasant individal, and you had the cheek to say said I was treating the lives of the hostages as pawns :ROFLMAO:
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In your case, especially as your read everyone's post as you want it to read to suit your own perverse views, yes i am.

However worry not, i like my membership of TWF, more than i like debating with an unarmed man.

So, i won't be replying to you anymore, but worry not, i won't put you on ignore, as i am starting to enjoy you making a total twat of yourself.
Happy whining, 😉
 
prawnking said:
Also, I don't recall the IRA ever being the government of the Republic of Ireland, so I'm not sure what your tasteless second paragraph is all about. A dig at my Irish heritage?
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Your Irish heritage?? Wasn't aware you had one... We could have a "who has more Irish heritage" competition if you like 🤣

Mine kinda stopped me from serving my Country and joining the RAF.

EDIT: With reference to the first part and the IRA... Sinn Fein was (is) the political party of the IRA and did form the first government of Ireland following the Easter Rising. The Government of the Irish Republic was then split in the lead up to and following the Irish Civil War with the formation of Cumann na nGaedhael which became Fine Gael in 1933 and Fianna Fail which was started by Eamon De Valera in 1926
 
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Anyone thinking a terrorist organisation is going to separate their activities from civilian areas is delusional. It’s the only thing limiting the IDF blowing them to a million pieces.

If Israel made an effort to take care of those that have moved to the south, as directed by them, they might just get some understanding of their dilemma of fighting Hamas who are embedded with civilians. As it is they are denying the displaced food, medicine and fuel and treating them appallingly which gives the world a window on how they view Palestinians in general.
 
It's not so much Israel (well I suppose it is by extension because they inexplicably keep electing the knobhead), it's Netanyahu. Every bit as much of a prick as Johnson, Trump, Orban, Modi etc.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
I know you are an argumentative fucker, but i didn't have you down as totally stupid.
the I D F, is slowly dismantling Hamas.
So, Hamas gives 50 hostages for a week long ceasefire, and uses the time to move forces, weapons stores, et al, all underground and thus out of site to give them a better position to attack the IDF, who sit in place for all to see above ground.
Two weeks later when the IDF locTe the new positions, hey ho, another 50 hostages for a other week of ceasefire, and around we go again.
All Hamas have going for them is the hostages, and if you let them dribble them out like a trail of corn for a chicken, you are playng into their hands for 4 or 5 weeks of ceasefire while they reposition.
Assuming the bulk of the hostages are still alive, which i very much doubt.

Oh, yes, and the first female hostage they release who tells the inevitable stories of how she has been raped and abused daily, they will have fucked what little propaganda they have going for them, so she's a definate gonner.
Not so difficult to understand, is it?
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Not going to argue with you but they released some female hostages weeks ago. They didn't report being raped whilst held hostage.

They are more than capable of that of course......but they didn't
 
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