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Jeremy Corbyn

I think you've hit the nail on the head with one part of that post particularly. I dont think JC is particularly clever.

He has his ideology that he sticks to, and he's personable enough, but I dont see any great spark of intelligence there. Its why he's often caught off guard, and is unable to think on his feet. He's not a particularly good debater. Bit of an empty vessel.
 
Corbyn's just a sockpuppet for Momentum and those politically engaged have pretty much rumbled this and thought fuck that.

I agree with Penk, most folks that vote will have seen their lives seemingly get better. Question Time was interesting last night as Martin Lewis wiped the floor with the Politicians and a left leaning comedian did the same. Politicians are as weak and just rank bad at debating as I've seen for a long time, as soon as they're knocked off their party message the inability to think for themselves lays them open for for all to see their inante lack of ability and failings. They're pretty much all vapid.
 
The lack of talent in the political ranks is worse than I can ever remember it being.
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
Probably true, plus the Conservatives seem to have benefited from the collapse of the UKIP vote.
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Probably because they have decided to turn themselves into UKIP.

The future political outlook for the country is pretty bleak from my point of view. Stuck with a government I passionately dislike and no real alternative on offer.
 
Tyrannosaurus Dan said:
Probably because they have decided to turn themselves into UKIP.

The future political outlook for the country is pretty bleak from my point of view. Stuck with a government I passionately dislike and no real alternative on offer.
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I must disagree with you. But I respect you opinion so will leave it at that.
 
Del Woppio said:
I like JC as a person but it's clear that he's never going to be prime minister, he's just not attractive enough to enough people, and the press have destroyed him. The problem now is that the Labour membership will keep him in, as a "fuck you" to the press, despite the fact its the wrong thing for the party and the country. He should be pummelling May every day, on radio, on TV, calling her out for the lying incompetent bastard that she is, but he's seemingly quite happy bumbling along giving her an easy ride. He's nowhere near aggressive (or clever) enough to take advantage of this terrible government unfortunately
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I think this is pretty much where I am at. I personally find it as shame as I feel I share a lot of the same principles he has. However I’ve been pretty disappointed in their brexit-lite (mich the same way Milliband was austerity-lite) alternative to what the stories are offering. That and the shocking issues of anti-semitism within the party which isn’t being addressed properly at all.
 
Agree that for labour, this week has to be seen as a failure. As has been mentioned, the government are not in any way being held to account for general and gross levels of incompetence. Windrush, this issues around breast cancer screening, the clusterfuck that is brexit, the fact that 4 cabinet members have had to resign within a year, the phenomenally weak position of May, and yet labour cannot make a sustained persistent attack on them highlights numerous weaknesses.

Agree with YW regarding the abominable handling of the anti-semitism also.

SLA raises an excellent point in that labour aren't offering an alternative. They really need to. Difficulty is, I can't see who Corbyn should step aside for.

2 good things from last night for me, the annihilation of UKIP, and also a green candidate stood in my ward. I bet jlovatt knows him. Gave him my vote, partially in the hope that at least he gets enough to recover his deposit, but also to send a message to the greens there are those of us out there who would vote for them.

In spite of all the above, local elections don't always genuinely represent peoples moods. I also have regularly voted differently in local elections, partially because I have voted for candidates (historically lib dems) who did excellent local work.
 
Potential challengers to Corbyn know that to do so would just invite demands for deselection from Momentumites in their CLP.

It really is a fucking mess.
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
I must disagree with you. But I respect you opinion so will leave it at that.
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If I may, Frank, I do think there has been a lurch to the right within the Conservative ranks. People like Rees-Mogg are much more empowered within the party than previously. Now, whether you agree with that lurch or not, a clear effect is the destruction of the UKIP vote.
 
Hadn't realised till yesterday that this was going on as there are no elections in Dorset this time - waiting (I think) for the relevant Secretary of State to approve the reorganisations of Dorset Councils into 2 unitary authorities (Bournemouth & Poole/rest of Dorset, but presume that there will need to be elections if that happens - unlikely to make that much difference though as there is a massive blue streak running through the County)
 
Visage said:
The lack of talent in the political ranks is worse than I can ever remember it being.
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Very few back benchers who you would fast track through to cabinet level, and there's many way out of their depth on the front bench.
 
I thought this was a good tweet
0262099d948d8dedd1abc98442add601.jpg
 
Some brief thoughts:

1. The media spin on the results is frightening. If they were GE votes Corbyn would be PM.
2. Labour only got the result it did last year because of its manifesto. If Corbyn were to go any replacement would have to share those views. Who might that be?
3. The media really don't want a Labour govt as their current policies make them the biggest threat to the status quo for 30-40 years.
4. The electorate are polarised into a large group wanting change and another that is horrified at the thought of a Corbyn led govt. It's hard to see how this will change significantly although Labour only need a 1.5% change to be the largest party.
 
Templeton Peck said:
Some brief thoughts:

1. The media spin on the results is frightening. If they were GE votes Corbyn would be PM.
2. Labour only got the result it did last year because of its manifesto. If Corbyn were to go any replacement would have to share those views. Who might that be?
3. The media really don't want a Labour govt as their current policies make them the biggest threat to the status quo for 30-40 years.
4. The electorate are polarised into a large group wanting change and another that is horrified at the thought of a Corbyn led govt. It's hard to see how this will change significantly although Labour only need a 1.5% change to be the largest party.
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Lolz.
 
Johnny75 said:
Lolz.
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Which part don’t you agree with?

BBC and Sky both suggested that the results could lead to seat gains for the Labour Party and seat losses for the Conservatives. Given the fine margins in Parliament, a change in government could easily occur.

In local elections in 2017 Labour polled at 27%, a few weeks later they polled 40%+ in a general election. Manifesto?

The electorate are clearly polarised. The Labour Party are going to struggle to attract votes from Conservative voters who would never vote for this version of the Labour Party. The Conservatives have clearly been unable to make a case for those Labour voters who don’t like Corbyn to jump ship. Usually there is the option of a third party which was Lib Dems, for a year or two there was UKIP, now there is nothing. If the Lib Dems are not able to attract significant numbers of disaffected Labour or Conservative voters it does suggest that there is polarisation and until the third party rises again there is unlikely to be any clear air between the main two parties.
 
Firstly it wasn't a GE, the voting isn't comparable and historically mid term elections are where the opposition does well. Both main parties split the vote winning 35% each. You could argue Labour have done very poorly considering the usual results.

Labour MP's and Lords have said the party needs to do much better to even contemplate a win. I guess they're wrong and Momentum supporters are right. Or maybe Momentum supporters are completely deluded and as Penk has said earlier May is for some reason actually popular in the country.

Nobody can prove the manifesto claim and Labour lost a GE and somehow claim this as a success. Add in the anti-Semitic shambles, lack of ability to pin the government down and attack them for scandal after scandal the polarisation isn't on policy but on lack of ability to hold a government to account.

The bit that made me laugh the most is the victim hood statement about the right wing media and being threatened by change? What exactly is the threat? I guess Tony Robinson's opinions are a minority and the true Labour movement wouldn't involve his type anyway.
 
Johnny75 said:
Firstly it wasn't a GE, the voting isn't comparable and historically mid term elections are where the opposition does well. Both main parties split the vote winning 35% each. You could argue Labour have done very poorly considering the usual results.

Yes, you could argue that. But you didn’t.

Labour MP's and Lords have said the party needs to do much better to even contemplate a win. I guess they're wrong and Momentum supporters are right. Or maybe Momentum supporters are completely deluded and as Penk has said earlier May is for some reason actually popular in the country.

Some MPs and Lords have indeed said that, they tend to be those who represent a certain element in the party. Why are their views given any more credence than others? It is just opinion. Labour need a swing of between 1 and 2% to claim a parliamentary majority and this time last year they polled 27% in the local elections.

Nobody can prove the manifesto claim and Labour lost a GE and somehow claim this as a success. Add in the anti-Semitic shambles, lack of ability to pin the government down and attack them for scandal after scandal the polarisation isn't on policy but on lack of ability to hold a government to account.

A claim made often, but this Labour Party seems to be held to a much higher standard than previous opposition parties. Tony Blair did nothing in opposition other than promise not to be John Major. David Cameron did little more than promise not to be Gordon Brown but a little bit like Tony Blair. It seems that unless Corbyn brings down the government he is ineffective.

The bit that made me laugh the most is the victim hood statement about the right wing media and being threatened by change? What exactly is the threat? I guess Tony Robinson's opinions are a minority and the true Labour movement wouldn't involve his type anyway.

Even the Tories and the right wing of the Labour Party recognise that there is a hostile media which is why they keep fanning the flames. Personally, I don’t think the media have much to fear from Corbyn as there is very little he can do to control their output without bordering on censorship.
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My view is the lack of an effective third party is the reason why neither party can establish clear water between them. Lib Dems tend to take votes from either Labour or Conservatives which enables one to establish a lead. The collapse of the third party vote has led to this situation of the two parties neck and neck. In mid term local elections when there are three parties the Lib Dems have taken votes from the party of government while the opposition party also sees an increase in support. Until there is an effective third party I don’t see the current stalemate being broken. Corbyn’s Labour aren’t going to break into the areas Tony Blair did and in opposition Labour can avoid responsibility for decisions taken by the government. The anti-semitism issue has not really dented Labour’s support.

The Conservatives are also stuck - they know that there is little more they can do to attack Corbyn, most of it is out there already and by know it is either an issue for people or not.

The only thing that is going to change the dynamics is a change of leader for either party and it is likely to be a case of who blinks first. Or a resurgent Lib Dem Party.
 
I'd agree with that, a third party would also be a natural home for Jonny and vis (and possibly me) and stop all the very predictable and boring moaning about Corbyn being a socialist (which he is and as the leader of a socialist party).
 
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