Jeremy Corbyn

[Papper]

Jezza has always been outspoken in regard to Palestine and other issues and as a humanitarian, a fine one I might add, I see him as somewhat a unifier rather than a divider so I am bit perplexed as to the attacks. Long may he continue to challenge and highlight this issues.

As for Brexit - I think it was plainly obvious that after a leave vote there would be a period of uncertainty, but I am not quite sure what is apparent now to voters that wasn't apparent back when the vote took place ? If the essence of the vote for leavers centred on sovereignty then tough negotiating and jostling was an inevitability. If the single market works then why drastically change it and if indeed we do wish to make changes then surely this is best served through a General Election rather than a bureaucrat in Brussels. Europe will still run in favour of the corporates rather than the socialist dream that never actually materialised but Brexit (for me) gives the people more power.

As an example the immigration policy of these Isles (Re Europe) post Brexit should be put to the electorate. Brexit was a game changer and for me the Tories never had the mandate. How they communicate economic plans in layman's terms god only knows, but I always saw the process as chipping down rather than deleting everything and starting again. All parties lay their cards on the table and put their visions to the people even if it means a delay ...

 

[Templeton Peck]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...vYeE16A8kyN86Mz0CEiYQHHGfV8a09dup5x0UbM0tLrwA

"Corbyn’s political beliefs and abilities as leader have been debated endlessly by many on these pages, myself included. But the point here is not about him, but the nature of the party he now leads, and which now stands transformed. There are some, of course, who are either unwilling or unable to make that distinction. Branding those who support his leadership a “cult”, they insist this is merely evidence of blind personal devotion. This was never true (though those who mistake Twitter for real life could be mistaken for thinking otherwise). During his first election in 2015, Corbyn won 44% of people who joined the party before 2010 and 49% of those who joined when Ed Miliband was leader – significantly more than any of his challengers and a clear sign of a far broader, deeper shift in the direction of the party."

 

[Johnny75]

That'll be Gary Younge, socialist former member of the Workers Party and known Corbyn supporter.

Writing his opinion down and preaching to an echo chamber isn't going to win new people over. It also doesn't change the fact that Corbyn is a weak leader with no hope of governing.

 

[Templeton Peck]

That'll be Gary Younge, socialist former member of the Workers Party and known Corbyn supporter.

Writing his opinion down and preaching to an echo chamber isn't going to win new people over. It also doesn't change the fact that Corbyn is a weak leader with no hope of governing.

Did you read it?

 

[visage]

It's hard not to feel that the next election will be won by the party that changes its leader first.

 

[Johnny75]

Did you read it?

Yes. Balanced is not something I would call that article. It's an advertorial piece for Jeremy Corbyn's Socialist Workers Party complete with attacking everybody else, including a sly dig at New Labour accusing it of being a cult!

I do agree with the quote on power being the goal for professional politicians but that's been the same for the entire time I've been alive and whilst I think it's a bad thing it'll need change from all of the political class including professional politician Jeremy Corbyn (which I thought was laughably left out by the partisan author).

I also agree with Vis, if the Tories get through March unscathed, they'll have a leadership change and call a general election. It's up to Labour to beat them to it.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Yes. Balanced is not something I would call that article. It's an advertorial piece for Jeremy Corbyn's Socialist Workers Party complete with attacking everybody else, including a sly dig at New Labour accusing it of being a cult!

I do agree with the quote on power being the goal for professional politicians but that's been the same for the entire time I've been alive and whilst I think it's a bad thing it'll need change from all of the political class including professional politician Jeremy Corbyn (which I thought was laughably left out by the partisan author).

I also agree with Vis, if the Tories get through March unscathed, they'll have a leadership change and call a general election. It's up to Labour to beat them to it.

I agree with Younge in that New Labour had much more in common with a cult than the current Labour party - top down policy making with strict controls to ensure MPs are 'on message' with the membership and voters completely taken for granted. Like it or not, this is not how the current Labour party works.

The idea that Labour is currently some sort of 'Socialist Workers Party' is wrong for 2 reasons:

1. The policies - they're really not that radical. Bulding council houses and nationalising rail isn't exactly the Bolshevik revolution.
2. 360,000 people have joined Labour since Corbyn came to prominence - there simply aren't that many loony lefties, commies etc in the UK to hijack the party.

 

[Derby Wolf]

I agree with Younge in that New Labour had much more in common with a cult than the current Labour party - top down policy making with strict controls to ensure MPs are 'on message' with the membership and voters completely taken for granted. Like it or not, this is not how the current Labour party works.

The idea that Labour is currently some sort of 'Socialist Workers Party' is wrong for 2 reasons:

1. The policies - they're really not that radical. Bulding council houses and nationalising rail isn't exactly the Bolshevik revolution.
2. 360,000 people have joined Labour since Corbyn came to prominence - there simply aren't that many loony lefties, commies etc in the UK to hijack the party.

Also Cultish that Blair tore up and rewrote Clause IV to shape the party goals in his own vision. One previous attempt 40 years earlier which failed horrendously.

 

[Johnny75]

It's laughable that people think New Labour was a cult.

Blair won nearly 14m votes in 1997.

 

[Templeton Peck]

It's laughable that people think New Labour was a cult.

Blair won nearly 14m votes in 1997.

??

 

[Johnny75]

??

You think 14m people voting for policies that benefitted them is being duped by a cult?

 

[Templeton Peck]

I meant it was more like a cult in the way the party was run as opposed to now.

Nearly 13m people voted for Corbyn's Labour but that's been dismissed as a cult often enough.

 

[visage]

The problem is that yes, Corbyn increased Labours vote. But May increased the Tory vote as well.

He's Marmite. Which is fine if the people that like you outweigh those that dont. But that isnt the case here.

 

[visage]

top down policy making with strict controls to ensure MPs are 'on message' with the membership and voters completely taken for granted.

How do you square this comment with the fact that currently the Labour membership are incredibly pro remain, yet the leadership ignore them, and sack MPs that disagree? Isnt that exactly what you're complaining about?

 

[Johnny75]

Nearly 13m people voted for Corbyn's Labour but that's been dismissed as a cult often enough.

True enough, can't argue with that. I do wonder how much of it was a protest vote against the Tories rather than for Corbyn and the Socialist policies.

 

[Tony Towner]

It amuses me that Chris Williamson who spends his time touring the country campaigning for soft left or none Corbynista MP's to be deselected is under thread of being deselected himself for never bleedin being here.

 

[Templeton Peck]

How do you square this comment with the fact that currently the Labour membership are incredibly pro remain, yet the leadership ignore them, and sack MPs that disagree? Isnt that exactly what you're complaining about?

Brexit is a political quagmire and they're trying to wade through it very carefully. To be fair though the leadership has now moved to a position of pro second referendum partly as a response to pressure from the membership.

 

[visage]

Brexit is a political quagmire and they're trying to wade through it very carefully. To be fair though the leadership has now moved to a position of pro second referendum partly as a response to pressure from the membership.

I cant help but feel that if New Labour had done this it would be characterised more harshly - 'Aloof leadership disregard members because they think they know better....'

 

[Templeton Peck]

I cant help but feel that if New Labour had done this it would be characterised more harshly - 'Aloof leadership disregard members because they think they know better....'

Well that sort of approach was routine under Blair. Number 10 exercised huge control over the party. Corbyn feels a great sense of responsibility to serve the members who elected him but Brexit is being managed in a much more Blairesque way.

 

[Kenny]

Police have launched a criminal inquiry into allegations of anti-Semitic hate crimes within the Labour Party.