Elephant Pyjamas
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Well this is sad to see from not only a former human rights lawyer, but a Labour Prime Minister preaching to the choir.
Keir Starmer at it again..
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lemonjelly
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Acting within the letter of the law of the country? Id say it is in line with what you'd expect from a lawyer?
Elephant Pyjamas
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I think/hope you know what I am getting at and why him posting this is particularly toxic.
lemonjelly
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Yeah but the place for that debate is to rip farages bullshit from today to shreds.
Net migration was 900k last year. Forecasts suggest this could grow.
Some of the public see illegal migration as the main issue/ cause. It isn't, & that does need addressing. But ignoring illegal migration isn't the way to do that.
Addressing the massive infrastructure issues that arise as a result of an ever growing population is an issue. Worsening the impact by not addressing the levels of migration is pouring petrol on the existing fire.
Net migration was 900k last year. Forecasts suggest this could grow.
Some of the public see illegal migration as the main issue/ cause. It isn't, & that does need addressing. But ignoring illegal migration isn't the way to do that.
Addressing the massive infrastructure issues that arise as a result of an ever growing population is an issue. Worsening the impact by not addressing the levels of migration is pouring petrol on the existing fire.
Templeton Peck
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We need politicians who will talk about the positive impact of immigration and discuss asylum seekers like they are actual human beings. They shouldn't be used as a political football at all really. Dehumanising 'out groups' leads to some very dark places.
Elephant Pyjamas
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We’ve got lots of politicians who will talk about that but are closed to discussion around any negatives to the point of paranoia, the soft underbelly of which the right are extremely adept in exploiting. Interesting Labour are now introducing the word ‘legitimate’ when acknowledging people’s concerns. That sets panic-stricken alarm bells ringing amongst anyone used to screaming racist/facist/nazi/scum at anyone without full open-border tolerance but it’s a recognition which is important imv.
Where all of that potentially takes us brings concerns too, but there has to be an attempt to meet in the middle because pretending problems don’t exist or fighting fire with fire is only going to drive things further one way unfortunately.
Templeton Peck
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They've been talking about 'legitimate concerns' for a few years now. All part of trying to normalise the out-group narrative. They've deliberately fostered this climate to distract from the real issues. It worked for a very long time, but the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.
leedswolf
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We need a Labour government that remembers its socialist foundations and uses them to create a fair and properly balanced society. It should criticise and strongly oppose extremism of the sort that Farage proposes.
I don’t think anyone is naive to deflection tactics, however for the Left unfortunately this is a “real issue”. Dismissing it as secondary or something that will disappear, or at least lessen to the point of insignificance by making people better informed & more economically secure themselves, is also naive imv.
It’s a front and centre issue now and Labour know it’s going to cost them. Going to be interesting to see where they go with this because they’ve limited options but at least they are no longer burying their heads in the sand.
Templeton Peck
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I'm not saying dismiss it, argue against it. Try change the narrative. Somebody has to. There are lives at stake here.
Elephant Pyjamas
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For as long as I can remember the narrative has not been fought against, just allowed. The idea being racists aren't worth listening to, don't engage with them, ignore them etc.
How many people on here have seen "friends" on social media say things that are repulsive and haven't engaged? They've ended that friendship or just ignored, thats why we are where we are now, this general attitude, and obviously to a greater extend MPs and the media have not done enough to argue against racism and xenophobia,
No talk of actual facts and statisitics, no comparisons. Just bullshit from the likes of Tommy and Nigel, the Sun etc that have just become fact to that sort of person. Free massages and gym memberships, it's just such utter bollocks.
It's not just the left who haven't fought hard enough against it, the centre and members of the right haven't too, and now we have the PM, a Labour PM de humanising asylum seekers as well now too!
Difficulty is it’s an argument that is being lost. It needs more than just figuring the best option is to continue as before but scream and shout racist/fascist/nazi/scum even louder.
I guess it’s a closed loop too easy to get trapped in. Worrying though that that might not just be the best option that’s not working, it might be the only option.
Elephant Pyjamas
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That doesn't need to be the argument now though, no one will listen to that.
But putting people right when they think that 900k came here in boats last year (i have a colleague who i consider to be intelligent who absolutely thought this was true) or telling them the Tories shut immigration centres and cut funding for it, DOES help.
MPs explaining the differences between asylum seekers, immigrants, refugees...fuck it, put in the curriculum, kids are clearly growing up not knowing.
Of course calling people racist etc isnt going help though. Not sure anyone is saying that?
Racists don't think they are racist, i've never met anyone who realises/admits that!?
Tricky one that because yes people get called racist for all kinds of unfair reasons which are often extremely counterproductive. It’s weaponised to the point of absurdity.
That said, it’s a very fine line when being proud of, or wishing to protect your culture, national identity and so on, to being guilty of or driven by racism.
It’s one of those ‘you can’t be a little bit pregnant’ kind of things and whether those tipping over into racism do it intentionally or through implicit bias is always a very fair question.
Elephant Pyjamas
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Yes, it's very easy to shut people down and not hear the essence of what they are saying because of the way they frame it can be repulsive, that helps no one on either side.
I think the fear part of xenophobia is far, far more prevalent than abject racism. People are more "scared" of foreigners in areas where there are fewer of them.
I think the fear part of xenophobia is far, far more prevalent than abject racism. People are more "scared" of foreigners in areas where there are fewer of them.
Templeton Peck
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leedswolf
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The same as what happens now?
